Simplify over complicated lights!

[Andehh]

I have over complicated the garage lights, and now need to simplify. Our electrician has proven himself somewhat of a ''character'' so I am trying to limit our active use of him.

The garage lights are controlled via three standard light switches & a PIR.

Idea being, the PIR is the main controller for the lights, but there are over ride switches. 2 inside the garage & one in the corridor leading to it.

It sort of works, but gets very confusing as to whether a light is on due to PIR (& its timer) or one of the switches....and whether you need to turn it off again, or whether it will turn itself off.

Before I ask the electrician to strip it back out again...what would work is if I could replace each of the light switches with an equiv one but that is on a timer itself..... so whatever has turned the light on...we know it will turn itself off again.

I found the below off Amazon which looks like it would work, but the switches are all double wired into each other (ie 2 x black and 2 x grey into the back of them), and this one only accepts a single wire.

6A Illuminated Timer Switch Rundown time lag Energy Saving, 12sec-12min Adjustable 2 Wire : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Can anyone recommend an equiv switch to the above, but that can take multiple wires in/out to link it to the other switches?

 

Thanks!

Edited August 8, 2023 by Andehh

[joe90]

They are often used in rental common corridors to stop lights being left on.

[Andehh]

That sounds like a similar need to mine, have you got any you could link me to please? 

[SteamyTea]

Can you just bypass the PIR and remember to turn the light off.

[Andehh]

Yes, that would be the worst case scenario.... but having paid to have the PIR put in & it being useful when you drive into the garage I would rather try and find a way of replacing the 'dumb' switch with a smart one.

 

The concept is:

 

PIR is for when you drive into the garage at night & the lights come on automatically for you, you then walk into the house & lights turn themselves off [saves people forgetting to turn the lights off as they walk into the house]

 

Or for when you walk into the garage from the house (PIR turns lights on), get in the car & drive off....the lights turn off automatically as it detected you when it came in. [saves people forgetting to turn lights off as they drive off]

 

The switch it for manually over riding it should I be working under the car or equiv!

 

What I didn't account for is the PIR doesnt detect you until you have walked a metre or two into the garage, which means we end up hitting the switch as we walk from the hallway into the garage to avoid falling down the step.

 

Hence seeing if there is an auto switch (ie hit it once & it turns itself off after ?mins) that could replace the attached image switch?

Edited August 14, 2023 by Andehh

[JohnMo]

Have an outside light on a PIR and a manual override. Have the inside lights separate on manual switch or 2 or 3 way same as a hall light.

 

Keep life simple, your Phillips hue lights should have been the wake up call, to keep it simple.

[Andehh]

We are moving in & I am stuck with what I've got - garage is boarded so cables all hidden. I over complicated it and just trying to find a reasonable middle ground now

 

I will probably pay electrician to disconnect one of the switches to step in the right direction (2 manual switches & PIR), but fundamentally I get 90% of what i want to achieve with an automatic switch replacing the one inside the hallway! Just one that turns itself off after 10mins....

[TonyT]

The photo shows an intermediate switch.

 

green and yellow sleeping required on the bare copper and some brown tape on the other conductors.

[Andehh]

Thanks Tony, have you ever come across an automatic intermediate switch? 

 

Unfortunately he can be patchy on these finishing details...... Hence desire to try and avoid using him other then this last headache I'm trying to work through! 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Andehh

[Mattg4321]

No sleeving. Are you sure this guy is an electrician??!!

[Andehh]

If trades were trusted, reliable and did their job first time.... This forum would be a bloody quiet corner of the Internet!!!! 

[TonyT]

You need to show what’s at the other switches and light fittings  to see how it’s wired.

 

I’ve not seen an intermediate PIR

[Andehh]

Thanks Tony! Please see attached photos of the three switches. All work as manual "on" over rides. 

[Mattg4321]

Any of the time lag switches will work as you have a 3 core and earth between the switches. It’s an incredibly simple job for a competent electrician. 

[Andehh]

Thanks Matt, is that with the intermediate switch? As that's the one in the critical location to make it work for us? 

 

Any wiring diagrams to articulate what you mean please? Thanks

[Mattg4321]

You won’t wire it as an intermediate/normal 2 way set up as the way time lag switches work is completely different. They turn themselves off, rather than it needing to be possibly turned off from 3 positions. 
 

You’ll just need to provide a permanent line and neutral to each switch. Then common together all the switched line outputs to the lights. 

[TonyT]

Could you alter the time on the pir to the minimum as you say in the original post you are unsure if the switch or the pir is bringing the light on.