Ground Floor Extension Planning and Party Wall Advice

[Can_Do]

Hi All

 

I am looking forward to start a 3 sided 115m2 ground floor extension next month (STPP). Construction will be by a builder friend and project management by myself. Ground floor plans  attached here to give you a flavour. 

 

The planning decision is due in couple of weeks. The next door neighbour has a mirrored property and has done the similar extension around 7 years ago (see the photos attached). They have objected to the plans on the basis that it will weaken their shallow garage foundations and roof, contravene party wall act (section 6), will restrict/prevent access to their guttering/roof etc., and couple of other minor points. We moved in the property in 2018 and applied a similar planning back in 2019 (kitchen was bit smaller and conservatory was staying) but the garage conversion was the same. That time, the neighbour only objected on the basis that natural light to their window would be blocked (as shown in photo). Their objection was rejected on that occasion as the window was not in a habitable room and planning was approved. However we didn't start the build straightaway and then COVID happened changing priorities. I am not sure what would be the planning department response to the objections this time. They may still approve it with some caveats and advisories or may ask to make some amendments. Will let you know when I have heard back from them.

 

However I am more concerned around the neighbour. They have built their wall touching to the fence which has made part of their guttering actually overhanging on to our side. I would also like to do the same and build as close to the fence on my side but without any guttering as I can plan the roof to drain to the front or back. They are not going to like it and may create problems when the build starts. So trying to anticipate any legal or other challenges they might throw in to stall the build. 

 

Any advice on both the planning aspects and how to manage neighbour boundary issue would be much appreciated. I would like to do any homework as needed to prepare rather than just sitting tight until I hear back from Council.

 

I would need plenty more advice when the build starts as this is a massive undertaking for me but let's get there first.  

 

 Thanks in advance. 

 

  

Existing_Floor_Plan.pdf Proposed_Floor_Plan.pdf

[Adsibob]

Although their gutters overhanging over the fence is not ideal and possibly illegal (the fence might belong to them and be on their land, in which case as long as the gutters aren’t actually over your land, it’s perfectly lawful), this is not a planning issue.

 

Now you have submitted, you might as well wait and see what happens, but if the planning officer gives you an incling that they might object or if you are asked by the officer to make any concessions to get approval, I would certainly make the following concession:

 

I would move your property so that you are at least 70cm but preferably 80cm away from the fence. Not only does this give you a side passage, with helpful access to your back garden, but it will also avoid a boundary dispute with your neighbour about the gutters and give you space for your own gutters.I appreciate you already have access to the rear on the other side, but it’s helpful to have access on both sides for things like window cleaning and maintenance, clearing gutters etc.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Adsibob

[Can_Do]

Hi Adsibob

 

Thanks for a prompt response and advise. Ideally I would like to cover the whole area as I have no use of it at all and I do have 1 m wide side access on the other side. I will wait for the planning for department response as you have suggested. I might have to arrange party wall agreement anyway which they are not likely to agree.

 

Any other advice on this challenge would be very much appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Adsibob]

1 hour ago, Can_Do said:

Any other advice on this challenge would be very much appreciated.

By “challenge” do you mean your neighbour’s objection? Or the challenge generally of building this? If the former, you have no procedural standing to respond to an objection, just to appeal if the decision goes against you.

[Temp]

Because you are building close to the neighbours the Party Wall Act will probably apply. If the neighbour knows their way around the Act they can make it quite expensive for you in terms of surveyors fees.

 

If he was happy with your project all you would need do is give him notice and plans and he would give you a letter in return, no surveyors involved. If he's not happy he can ignore your notification or object to it and you are obliged to get surveyor(s) involved. He can agree to share your surveyor or have you pay for one of his own. 

 

There is no penalty for not complying with the PWA only risk. If the neighbour wanted to cause trouble they could ask a court for an injunction stopping work on the grounds that your work is causing cracks etc. The court would take a dim view of your decision not to comply and might be more likely to grant the injunction abs possibly costs.

 

If his facia boards are timber perhaps offer to replace those facing you with uPVC to get his support? Perhaps point out if he agrees to your project you won't raise the issue of his gutters overhanging the boundary. If he's still not happy you may have to get PWA surveyors involved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Can_Do]

Thanks both for your responses.

 

The planning seems to be less of a challenge as it is the same person who approved last planning 4 years ago with my walls shown right next to fence. They can either approve the application with advisories to comply with PWA or come back to me with some comments for amending the drawings. I can only wait until they come back and will let you know the outcome.

 

The bigger challenge is that the neighbour would want to keep my new walls as far as away and I would like to do the opposite. We are not on talking terms and their recent behaviour has shown that they will go to maximum distance to get what they want. My frustration (should go away slowly) is that we both have identical properties and he has built more than even maximum without any consideration for their neighbour and now I may not be able to utilise my own land to my benefit.

 

Have done some internet search today and have come to the same conclusion that I will need to go down the route of PWA surveyors with associated costs and delay to start. Trying to learn on the ropes of what is the implications of this route. The first questions for me are 

 

1. How close the new wall can be without risking neighbour's foundations with all the precautions and pre+post condition surveys etc. For example, I can possibly get the joists to rest on other walls to reduce the foundation width and depth.

2. Do I have any obligations under PWA in planning my walls for the neighbour to maintain and repair their drainage in future.   

 

The answer to above two will help me understand the 'minimum' I have to give in which I can then offer to the neighbour as a start before engaging surveyors. Also, any views on surveyors will be appreciated. The internet search says that they should act impartial so, will they award the 'minimum' or close to it.    

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

[Big Jimbo]

You have said that both of your properties are the same, or were before the property next door was extended. That would suggest that the wall hard up against the boundary was built 8 years ago when the property was extended. If that is the case, his building will have had to comply with building regulations. That means that the building inspector will have inspected his trenches / foundations depth. You may well find that you will only be digging down to the same depth as the bottom of his foundations. If that is the case then the PWA will not apply, and you wont need One. To start with, i would dig a hole in your garden, alongside his building, and find out how deep his foundations actually go down into the ground. That would be a good starting point to enable you to see if the PWA will even come into play. If you can avoid it then it will save you several Thousand Pounds. 

Providing you can avoid the waste of money that is the PWA, the only other thing i would perhaps consider doing, is offering to have the condition of your neighbours wall recorded by a surveyor, (photos etc) before the start of work. This would protect you from them saying "You caused this crack etc" as all that would be logged before any work started on your side.

[Can_Do]

Thanks for the very useful advice. I have looked at the old Google street views and the extension was done apparently around 11 years ago. It would still be covered by Building control though. I will dig holes at the weekend to check foundation details. The planning decision is due next week as well. Fingers crossed. 

[Can_Do]

Hi All

 

A quick update. The planning decision was delayed but finally came through as approved with no objections or issues. There are few informatives including advice to follow party wall act. I did couple of holes to check the foundations. The garage wall foundation is roughly 300mm deep adjoining ground level and appears to be original from the time when the house would have been built. The foundation for the extension behind the garage is new and supports the twin wall single storey extension. I didn't check the full depth.

 

I an now getting a structural designer visiting tomorrow to prepare foundation drawings. Will have no choice but to follow the party wall notice route even if it is going to be a lot of money spent for little use.  

 

Thanks. 

[Temp]

If you can keep the neighbour happy the cost of the Party Wall Act compliance can be minimal. I would get your SE to design the foundations and provide advice on how to dig them so you don't damage next door's garage.

 

Then I would go and see them armed with copies of the drawings, letters from the SE and the notification letter as required by the Party Wall Act. There is a sample letter in the Guide to the Act. I think there is also a sample letter they could sign if happy. Make a big deal about how you have paid for an SE to give advice on how to avoid damage and if they are happy with the method your SE has proposed ask them to let you have the response letter back. You could hint that another SE thought the proposed method was unnecessary but that you want to do it the safest method. If you don't get that back within 14 days you have to assume they disent and it gets expensive.

 

 

[Can_Do]

On 18/06/2023 at 23:12, Temp said:

If you can keep the neighbour happy the cost of the Party Wall Act compliance can be minimal. I would get your SE to design the foundations and provide advice on how to dig them so you don't damage next door's garage.

 

Then I would go and see them armed with copies of the drawings, letters from the SE and the notification letter as required by the Party Wall Act. There is a sample letter in the Guide to the Act. I think there is also a sample letter they could sign if happy. Make a big deal about how you have paid for an SE to give advice on how to avoid damage and if they are happy with the method your SE has proposed ask them to let you have the response letter back. You could hint that another SE thought the proposed method was unnecessary but that you want to do it the safest method. If you don't get that back within 14 days you have to assume they disent and it gets expensive.

 

 

Apologies it took long to respond and thanks for the wise advise above. The relationship has not been great with the neighbours so for our peace of mind we decided to use the the Party Wall Surveyor route. We didn't have a SE hired as well. Luckily the neighbour agreed for our surveyor for joint representation and it was in the end a smooth process.

 

The Surveyor recommended hit and miss approach for laying foundation adjacent to the neighbour's garage in his party wall award. We are now looking forward to start the construction. Hopefully no more issues with neighbours at least.