How to bond rising walls in 13 inch work (335mm)

[AppBricky]

Hey guys

 

When building rising wall in 13 inch work, how do you decide where to put the block on edge? Do you start with a block on flat along the building line for the first course and then add the block on edge to the outside of block and flat? Obviously then reversing it on alternate courses?

 

How do you bond corners when doing this type of work?

 

Many thanks for any help and advice 😌

[Declan52]

It's easier to use a block on its edge first as you will be using string lines to form your outside edges and plumbing down to get the measurements correct. So moving a single block to get everything square is much easier. Then once your happy it's all as the plan says you can put the 2 blocks on the flat behind it. 

 

For corners you just bond it like you would normally. When it's the block on its edge you use a brick at the corner and when it's the course on the flat use a block cut in half on the return.

Your basically building a single skin on the outside and build it as normal then put the blocks on the flat behind to suit. Then next course build the ones on the flat on the outside first then in the inside  making sure you always overlapping so you have no vertical joints. 

[AppBricky]

On 18/06/2022 at 20:38, Declan52 said:

It's easier to use a block on its edge first as you will be using string lines to form your outside edges and plumbing down to get the measurements correct. So moving a single block to get everything square is much easier. Then once your happy it's all as the plan says you can put the 2 blocks on the flat behind it. 

 

For corners you just bond it like you would normally. When it's the block on its edge you use a brick at the corner and when it's the course on the flat use a block cut in half on the return.

Your basically building a single skin on the outside and build it as normal then put the blocks on the flat behind to suit. Then next course build the ones on the flat on the outside first then in the inside  making sure you always overlapping so you have no vertical joints. 

 

Declan thank you for your replies. 
 

So if I set out one wall with a block on edge on the outside, do I continue this right around the whole build? 
 

For some reason I thought if the block on edge was on the outside on one wall, where the wall returns it would then be on the inside of the block on flat? 
 

Would you have any pictures of how corners are built in this way? 
 

Many thanks. 

[Mr Punter]

Where we are I often see 215 blockwork done 2 courses stacked.  It does not really look right but I think the brickie does cage fighting.

 

 

[AppBricky]

48 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Where we are I often see 215 blockwork done 2 courses stacked.  It does not really look right but I think the brickie does cage fighting.

 

 

Thank you for the reply. 
 

But that’s block on flat coming off an existing wall and probably being tied in with a starter kit perhaps? 
 

I am looking to know how rising walls are built in (325mm) and in particular the corners. How do you bond the corners so you have half bond? 

[Mr Punter]

Sorry I was digressing but making the point that they don't bond every course.  I think you run round the outside with block on edge and the inside with block on flat.  They don't need to be bonded together.  Treat them like they are 2 leaves.  Obvs 2 flat = 1 on edge.

[AppBricky]

20 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Sorry I was digressing but making the point that they don't bond every course.  I think you run round the outside with block on edge and the inside with block on flat.  They don't need to be bonded together.  Treat them like they are 2 leaves.  Obvs 2 flat = 1 on edge.

Haha no problem. I appreciate your input. 
 

Ok, but the block on flat then goes over the block on edge the second course though does it not? 
 

And then, second course of the block on edge sits on the first course of block on flat? 

[Mr Punter]

30 minutes ago, AppBricky said:

Ok, but the block on flat then goes over the block on edge the second course though does it not? 
 

And then, second course of the block on edge sits on the first course of block on flat? 

No.  You often see below ground just built in 2 separate leaves with a load of cavity fill concrete between.  If the footings are deep you could put in some wall ties but I don't think you need them.

[AppBricky]

38 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

No.  You often see below ground just built in 2 separate leaves with a load of cavity fill concrete between.  If the footings are deep you could put in some wall ties but I don't think you need them.

Ah right. 
 

No the rising wall I’m talking about is solid. It is a block on edge with two blocks on flat behind it.   
 

The attached image showing a section through, will hopefully clarify the type of rising wall I am talking about. 

I’m just so confused about how to build it. I’m afraid of doing something wrong. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by AppBricky

[Mr Punter]

You don't need to alternate the block on flat from inside to outside.  Do it inside all the way.  BTW Poratherm has many negatives.  Very difficult to get a fixing and not good thermally.  There is a reason they don't get used over here much.

[Declan52]

Have no pictures.

The block on its edge will be set to suit the outside measurement on the plan so when it goes up to sub floor level you then start the first course of brick/block that will end up being visible. 

You can go right round with one on its edge in one go no bother. This will give you a straight wall with which to put the 2 blocks on the flat up against. 

Your 2nd course then will be 2 on the flat set plumb on the outside so your bonding over the single block below on its edge. 

Your basically building a single skin right round and then filling in the back with a 9 inch wall with the blocks bonded as normal. Then on the next course you build a 9 inch wall and fill in the back with the single block bonding as you would normally do building this width. 

[AppBricky]

14 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Have no pictures.

The block on its edge will be set to suit the outside measurement on the plan so when it goes up to sub floor level you then start the first course of brick/block that will end up being visible. 

You can go right round with one on its edge in one go no bother. This will give you a straight wall with which to put the 2 blocks on the flat up against. 

Your 2nd course then will be 2 on the flat set plumb on the outside so your bonding over the single block below on its edge. 

Your basically building a single skin right round and then filling in the back with a 9 inch wall with the blocks bonded as normal. Then on the next course you build a 9 inch wall and fill in the back with the single block bonding as you would normally do building this width. 

Thank you Declan. So to try sum it up in simple terms (for me) I would be best setting out the building with the block on edge. I then fall back and put the blocks on flat behind this. This will give me my first course. 
 

Then for my second course I build the block on flat over the block on edge and then put block on edge in behind the block on flat. I continue this trend until desired height. 
 

Regarding corners, when building block on flat or block on edge, I just bond as normal keeping half bond? 
 

And hopefully my last question on this - do the perps / cross joints of block on edge and block on flat have to align on each course? For example, should the first course of block on edge cross joint / perp but in line with the cross joint / perp of the block on flat? 
 

Or am I now overthinking it? 

[AppBricky]

29 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

You don't need to alternate the block on flat from inside to outside.  Do it inside all the way.  BTW Poratherm has many negatives.  Very difficult to get a fixing and not good thermally.  There is a reason they don't get used over here much.

I do if that’s what the drawing specifies! 🙈😂😂 

 

Thanks for your input though.  Great community here. 👍🏻

[Brickie]

52 minutes ago, AppBricky said:

 

And hopefully my last question on this - do the perps / cross joints of block on edge and block on flat have to align on each course? For example, should the first course of block on edge cross joint / perp but in line with the cross joint / perp of the block on flat?

Indeed they should-sectional joints is the phrase. 
If you don’t then you’ll have straight joints (or less than quarter bond) vertically somewhere. 
 

[AppBricky]

29 minutes ago, Brickie said:

Indeed they should-sectional joints is the phrase. 
If you don’t then you’ll have straight joints (or less than quarter bond) vertically somewhere. 
 

Thanks Brickie 👍🏻 

 

So like my rough drawing here?

 

 

[Brickie]

Yeah,that’s the principle. Bonding the corners could be a pain though. 

[AppBricky]

38 minutes ago, Brickie said:

Yeah,that’s the principle. Bonding the corners could be a pain though. 

Pain? How so? Cuts to keep the joints the same on both leafs?

[Declan52]

You should have bricks in the return of that pic but otherwise yep. You always end up with cuts no matter how you try to do it. 

[AppBricky]

21 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

You should have bricks in the return of that pic but otherwise yep. You always end up with cuts no matter how you try to do it. 

Thanks Declan. Which return? The block on edge? Can I cut 3/4 for corner to keep half bond? 

[Declan52]

Should look like this then you get the correct bond. Use 3 bricks.