Prepping a spec to go out for builders for quoting

[LaCurandera]

Hi, 

We've nearly finished the plans with the architect and will be likely submitting planning in the next week or so. Now we have planning drawings, we need to start getting quotes. However, I don't know what level of speccing us as customers need to do for the builder, and how to present it.  

The property has been empty for 2 years so we're hoping to use the 5% VAT level (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/buildings-and-construction-vat-notice-708#section8) for the builder to buy all materials that are eligible (e.g. likely a Howdens kitchen) 

I'm conscious if it's more about the fabric, but we haven't specified plug sockets, light switches, doors / handles, windows manufacturer etc, then wouldn't the builder just put in the most basic Wickes one of each, then we've got budget creep that's not as obvious initially?

Is there a list somewhere of things that a builder would find helpful to have for the spec from the customer, rather than the architect, that I might not be aware of?

Edited June 1, 2022 by LaCurandera

[markc]

Drawings for planning are completely different from construction or quotable drawings.

It is up to you to detail exactly what you want or you are likely to get a big shock or shocks and multiple headaches during the build.

sit down and think what you want, what is important, what is just dreaming and what spec level you can afford.

[Carrerahill]

2 hours ago, LaCurandera said:

Hi, 

We've nearly finished the plans with the architect and will be likely submitting planning in the next week or so. Now we have planning drawings, we need to start getting quotes. However, I don't know what level of speccing us as customers need to do for the builder, and how to present it.  

The property has been empty for 2 years so we're hoping to use the 5% VAT level (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/buildings-and-construction-vat-notice-708#section8) for the builder to buy all materials that are eligible (e.g. likely a Howdens kitchen) 

I'm conscious if it's more about the fabric, but we haven't specified plug sockets, light switches, doors / handles, windows manufacturer etc, then wouldn't the builder just put in the most basic Wickes one of each, then we've got budget creep that's not as obvious initially?

Is there a list somewhere of things that a builder would find helpful to have for the spec from the customer, rather than the architect, that I might not be aware of?

It takes us about 2 days to write an electrical spec, 2 days to write the mechanical spec... see where this is going. 

 

For the general build I would expect building warrant drawings with enough detail will give them enough to build the building, but not all drawing packages are this good. Normally an architect is not the best for these drawings, they are more about looks and polished things and bits of slate forming openings and glazing and decorative cladding drip edge details around windows. 

 

Once you have a drawing that specs, every detail of the building you can then worry about the internal stuff, like plumbing and electrics, with obvious chicken and egg situations such as drainage routes and popups, duct for electrical services etc.

 

If you want a certain level of electrical fitout, mechanical fit out, joinery fit out then you will need to write a spec. I would even spec cable types and manufacturers to stop that cheap Turkish cable I have seen on some sites recently that looks very poor. 

 

This is the only way you can get an apples for apples quote and even then there will be exclusions and things not as per spec. For example, drawings might say, plasterboard with full skim quote, yet they will price for taping only. They need to be told the spec is the spec, not a guide, not a suggestion, its the spec. 

[Carrerahill]

37 minutes ago, markc said:

Drawings for planning are completely different from construction or quotable drawings.

It is up to you to detail exactly what you want or you are likely to get a big shock or shocks and multiple headaches during the build.

sit down and think what you want, what is important, what is just dreaming and what spec level you can afford.

Agreed, planning drawings are basically pretty pictures, often I find of buildings that cannot be physically built! Like a block of flats we are working on where the planning architects included no columns anywhere in the whole building, now people have columns in their living rooms and stacks running through their walls; this is a mid-market development in London!

 

Not all architects are like this, I work with a few small practises where they are great and do know how to build a building and not just sketch it. 

 

 

[LaCurandera]

Perfect, thank you. 

I had been told by the architect that planning drawings are indicative as you guys say. I was hoping to get ahead of the specing for stuff that feels like it's on us (doors, finishes etc) in order to combine with the construction drawings. Our architect has a price for the planning drawings, then another for the technical ones / building regs. Do you feel this shouldn't be from an architect @Carrerahill? Would it be structural engineer?

[Carrerahill]

14 minutes ago, LaCurandera said:

Perfect, thank you. 

I had been told by the architect that planning drawings are indicative as you guys say. I was hoping to get ahead of the specing for stuff that feels like it's on us (doors, finishes etc) in order to combine with the construction drawings. Our architect has a price for the planning drawings, then another for the technical ones / building regs. Do you feel this shouldn't be from an architect @Carrerahill? Would it be structural engineer?

I would ask to see an example of their technical drawings and warrant drawings and see what detail they produce.

 

Someone who actually understands how buildings go together at all levels is a must at this stage, your architect may well be this person, but they might also be more akin to an interior designer. 

 

It really all boils down to money I suppose. Good plans now will save money in the long term and will give you a better more integrated and coordinated building in the end.

 

If the plan details everything from the first concrete foundation to drainage to membrane details then everyone can price something that is firmly stated, as soon as there is interpretation then things can go south. Builder A might use the cheapest of all materials and a high labour cost, builder B might use better materials but a lower labour cost, so you have two similar prices. Then builder C might be the most expensive, so you take a punt on builder A because he was a nice guy and looked more professional. So you end up with, smaller rebar or lower strength concrete and lower service life membranes and cheaper windows and doors and electrical accessories and taps and WC's etc.

 

It is like ordering materials, ask for timber and you will get heck knows what, ask for a piece of treated C24 2x6 4.8m long and then they all have to provide the same product at their price. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Carrerahill

[LaCurandera]

Thanks!

I guess there's two parts, there's all the technical / building drawings, and then there's the more "internal" spec like doors and electrical points. 

And sounds like more detail the better, can't have too much. And I guess it's easier for the builder to quote.