What happens after Planning Submission?

[Gimp]

14 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Just to illustrate, in slightly different circumstances talking to people may kill your proposal stone dead.

 

An example is trees. If a neighbour wishes to stop your development he can ask the Tree Officer to put a Preservation Order on a Tree under the guise of protecting a community asset, and the TO may or may not do it. If they do, then you have restrictions, and conditions as to what you can do. May be OK; may not be OK.

 

It may not stop you, but it may add thousands.

 

Equally if you have considered in advance you may have decided which trees you wish to retain, and removed the others. IN that case they are not 'Materiql Planning Matters'. But even removing them will be a cost, and you may still not get permission.

 

You are in those circs dependent on the goodwill of your neighbours, and who the particular TO may be, and possibly whether they have just been bawled out by a Councillor in the local paper for not protecting enough trees in the last month.

 

There is a derelict house with about 7 TPOs on the half acre garden near here, which has been empty since the mid 1980s, and cannot be realistically developed while the trees are still there. It should have had 5 houses on it 15 years ago. They have now at last been removed under Dead Decaying Dangerous provisions aiui and it can move ahead.

 

So it is in some measure a cross between poker and a lottery. You can mitigate, and derisk, and find advisers, and learn some tactics and techniques to help decisions go the way you want, and know what your local policies are on matters like technicalities and locals Housing mix required and go out of your way to meet all the policies so making reasons for refusal more difficult to find.

 

But it is not certain, and otoh you may have no problems at all.

 

Question to others: is there a good chapter on this in the House Builders' Bible we can recommend? I struggle with the book because my copy is like reading a Microdot, and I cannot find a Kindle version.

 

Ferdinand

I think your right Ferdinand, people can get very worked up/funny about development. Fortunately for me there are no trees on site. So I am blessed in this respect

 

[Gimp]

15 hours ago, JSHarris said:

I picked up quite a bit about the planning process when we were plot hunting, a process that took several years.  One thing that stood out was that some planning consultants have a very much higher success rate than others, that was apparent by just reading the planning lists for the local authorities in our search area every week.

 

Two examples that spring to mind, the second being our own plot:

 

In the next village up the valley from where we live there is a pretty classic infill plot, part of the very large garden to a bungalow built in the 1970's, with a (now disused) track running through it from the lane to what used to be a chicken farm.  The track belongs to the bungalow, but is now part of what is just a very overgrown area, covered in brambles.  The owner of the bungalow (a local farmer) applied for planning permission to build two, four bedroom "executive homes" on this land.  Given that the land is inside a conservation area and dead opposite a Grade I listed church, this plan was clearly doomed, and it was rejected because of the scale of the development and because the design would have had a negative impact on the setting of the listed building.  A second application was submitted for a single 5 bedroom "executive home", and, surprise, surprise, that was also rejected for the same reasons.

 

At this point I decided to approach the landowner, asking if he'd consider selling the land to us, dependent on me getting PP.  He was a bit blunt, and asked what made me think I could get PP when his "expert" hadn't been able to?  Despite this I went and saw the planning officer (this was back in the days when you could do this) and asked if there was a problem with the principle of development of this land.  He said that there wasn't, and that the only reasons for refusal were to do with the design and scale of the proposals being out of keeping with the surrounding houses, and, in particular, the listed building.  I sketched a proposal out, sent it to the planning officer and he said that he would almost certainly support it.  I went back to the land owner, gave him the news, and he told me to bugger off.  The land is still undeveloped now, some 8 years later.  The moral of this tale is that a competent planning consultant could have definitely gained PP for this plot, I believe, but that the rather incompetent firm that the land owner had used just hadn't read the reasons for refusal, and spotted that there was no objection in principle to developing the plot.

 

Our own plot had a very chequered planning history; it took the original owner 4 years and three applications to get outline approval, for much the same reason as described in the story above.  When PP was eventually granted it was with some pretty onerous conditions.  The odd thing is that when we bought it, and set about looking to see how we could get PP for the house we wanted, which was radically different from the outline proposal, we had no objections from anyone, and the decision went through without even going to committee.  I'm convinced that most of the reason for this is because I made a scale model of the site, which clearly showed that the house was going to be set down ~2.5m into the hillside, so would be far less prominent that local residents had thought.  I'm convinced that a lot of people struggle to read plans and visualise how something will look, and assume the worst.

 

 

Yeah its a bit of a problem when the planners see the appropriate build one way and the developers another which I gather is often the case. The planners tend to be more conservative in the amount/scale that can be built and the developers often left wanting more. While some restraint needs to be exercised on some developers that are too excessive in making a quick buck and jamming in the builds I tend to get the impression that planners might be a little out of sync with present day economics, if they end up suggesting a too modest build then its just not worthwhile for the developer to make it feasible. I'm guessing you might have would the developer up in your case Jeremy, lol He probably thought you would come back with something near what he wanted then he would build it instead.

 

I've no problem with adjusting a little where reasonable/possible but if its a planner who just wants to restrict you to building what they would like to see then its no good in my view. While the built environment needs to be safeguarded from monstrosities I also get the impression the that planners tend to have a rather meek view of everything being very unnoticeable, architecturally devoid and pedestrian looking.  

[hmpmarketing]

6 hours ago, Gimp said:

I think your no doubt a lot more people skilled than I am HMP

 

I wish I was, to be honest I am the kind of guy that keeps to myself, and before I went and knock on everyone's door, I did prepare myself mentally in order to do so!

 

The real reason I actually decided to approach was due to the planning history of the site, having the previous developer made empty promises to everyone else regarding replacing the fence boards along one boundary. They also had raised objections regarding the size of the garage previously, so I thought to myself, if I am friendly enough and make myself known, this would reduce the chances of any objections (and I havent got a single one on both applications). I know some people will say otherwise but to me it worked quite well.

 

 

[jack]

11 hours ago, hmpmarketing said:

- Speak with your neighbours (although I see you have already submitted your app); however do not reveal too much information and at the same time, dont ask them what they think about your plans!!! I had a word and introduced myself to every single one of my neighbours (except number 14 as many of you know!!!) and everyone has been very nice to me up to now, even got one to allow me to remove a tree from his garden! And I am 3 weeks away from completion!

 

In a lot of situations, I think this is exactly the way to go about it (of course, I would say that since we did the same!)  

 

At the least, neighbours mustn't be asked for their opinions!  If you do, you'll get feedback, and then people might get annoyed when you don't take into account their comments.  

 

We were lucky that we accidentally weren't able to build for a lot longer than we expected.  This gave us a chance to get to know the neighbours a bit more, and to get them used to the idea of what we were doing.  We started with the possibility of a large extension and renovation of the tired old bungalow we bought, then with knocking down and rebuilding, then moved on to the idea of a modern house.  Close to the day, we put together a package with a nice pic of the house and a covering letter explaining what we were doing.  We focused on the build process (prefab timber frame, minimal disruption) and how we were committed to minimising inconvenience for everyone.  I don't know what impact this had, but I'm convinced that a lot of people are as put out by the prospect of building works for most of a year as they are by the end product.

 

By the time we submitted our planning application, there was nothing new in it for any of the neighbours.  We got no objections (other than from the town council, but they object to everything that isn't covered in hung tile as far as I can see), and indeed one of our neighbours offered to write in support when they got the letter from the planning department through the post.

 

7 hours ago, Gimp said:

Other all this running around seems a lot of silliness that really shouldn't be brought into it. After all I'm trying to build a build on my land, not become personality of the year, if it doesn't affect them then its really none of there business. I guess I'll have to wait and see on this if this is the right approach but I'm thinking the less fuss I make the less fuss they will make.     

 

Agreed that's how it should be, but we're stuck dealing with how it is.  

 

Since a specific objection will only work if it relates to a planning issue that would otherwise have been overlooked by the planning department (not likely), the main thing to avoid is triggering a call into committee.  In some councils, some particular number of objections (5 or 6 is typical, I think) will automatically result in the application being put before committee.  If you want to avoid the decision being made by your local planning committee, then keeping the objections below that magic number may help.  

 

Or not.  It's planning, and who knows what the hell will happen?!

[PeterW]

5 minutes ago, jack said:

11 hours ago, hmpmarketing said:

- Speak with your neighbours (although I see you have already submitted your app); however do not reveal too much information and at the same time, dont ask them what they think about your plans!!! I had a word and introduced myself to every single one of my neighbours (except number 14 as many of you know!!!) and everyone has been very nice to me up to now, even got one to allow me to remove a tree from his garden! And I am 3 weeks away from completion!

 

In a lot of situations, I think this is exactly the way to go about it (of course, I would say that since we did the same!)  

 

At the least, neighbours mustn't be asked for their opinions!  If you do, you'll get feedback, and then people might get annoyed when you don't take into account their comments.  

 

Oddly when I went for NMA I did ask the neighbours as we had an overlooking dormer on the back I wanted to get rid of - the neighbours fully supported this and I put that in the notes to the planning officer and she agreed that was worthwhile.

 

Slightly bigger issue though when its a whole planning application you're talking about !!

 

[jack]

9 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Oddly when I went for NMA I did ask the neighbours as we had an overlooking dormer on the back I wanted to get rid of - the neighbours fully supported this and I put that in the notes to the planning officer and she agreed that was worthwhile.

 

In that particular situation it makes perfect sense - you're offering the neighbours something they're very likely to want!

[Temp]

I'm a bit late to this thread but I suggest reading "How to get Planning Permission" by Roy Speer and others. Try for latest edition.

 

Typically it takes two weeks for them to check the drawing package is complete and send them off to be scanned into pdf form for the web site. Can take longer. Anything major missing and they will usually contact you.

 

Officially they have 8 weeks to approve or reject your application but only very simple applications manage that. In my area they write to you stating that unless you object they will assume you are waiving your right to an 8 week determination. I suggest a carefully worded reply stating that you won't hold them to the 8 week deadline but you reserve the right to appeal for non-determination should that become necessary. If it does drag on keep an eye on the timescales as you have a limited timescale in which to appeal for non-determination. After that you loose the right.

 

Once live on the web site the planning officer will write to all the neighbours giving them the required statutory period time period to comment. These comments will also be scanned and put on the web site with a delay. He will also visit the site and write a report recommending approval or rejection to the Planning Committee. The Committee meets either every 4 or 8 weeks so you can see that an 8 week target is difficult for that reason alone.

 

It's possible to get site of the planning officers report before the meeting and ask to speak at the meeting but you will need to be pro-active in keeping track of progress without making a nuisance of yourself. Sometimes the agenda for the meeting is published a week or two in advance on the council web site. Sometimes not until a day or two before.

 

Some applications are determined not at committee but by the planning officer using his delegated powers. The Planning officer might start out intending to approve or reject using his delegated powers but if there are any objections or if the planning officer thinks it's controversial he will refer it to the committee.

 

After the committee makes a decision the planning officer has to write a letter detailing the reason for refusal or any conditions if approved. Do not celebrate too much until you get that letter. Sometimes the committee reject an application for reasons that aren't entirely consistent with planning law and the planning officer has to think up more valid planning reasons for rejection.

 

Do NOT start any work on site until you have sorted out all the CIL exemption paperwork or you may loose the exception costing you £thousands.