ash_scotland88 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Competent to complete the physical work but not 100% sure on regs and admittedly a tad lazy to try and find the parts I need... 1a) bedrooms have the lights Infront of windows/over dressing table. Want to centre them to room. As far as I can tell all wiring is in metal conduit. Can I just cut and file the conduit in place I want? Or do I need a junction box, tap and die set for creating thread etc? b) if I want add extra lights do I need to add in conduit? The bedrooms should be easy as I can access from above but ground floor rooms will be harder (eg dinning room needs to move a 1m or so in line) C) Do adding in extra or moving sockets also require conduit in walls 2) Following on my garden lighting thread what's the standard for running power for lighting outside? My plan is to use a junction box that's already there with a flood, tack along and down a wall then reaching ground level. Plan is to use armoured but how deep do I have to go? Some places I may be able tack along a small wall, but I don't think the longest run I'm able to. I maybe could but it will be tacked about an inch or two above ground. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Does the light fitting have any twin and earths or single core conductors? the conduit may have been the conductor containment and the earth, so cutting into it may affect other how old is the existing electrical installation? do you have RCD-/rcbo protection at the fuse board? do you have metal light switches with earth conductors to the face plate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, ash_scotland88 said: 2) Following on my garden lighting thread what's the standard for running power for lighting outside? My plan is to use a junction box that's already there with a flood, tack along and down a wall then reaching ground level. Plan is to use armoured but how deep do I have to go? Some places I may be able tack along a small wall, but I don't think the longest run I'm able to. I maybe could but it will be tacked about an inch or two above ground. The regs mean mains wiring outdoors is notifiable work so should get an electrician to do it and he should send paperwork to Building Control. You can save a lot by digging and filling the trenches for him. The same does not apply to 12V lighting so all the DIY sheds have switched over to selling a range of 12V plug and play lighting. Otherwise.. Mains wire needs to be suitably sized for the load, length and location. Should be buried at least 400mm deep or 600mm where the ground might be disturbed (eg under flower beds). Should be a marker tape above the cable so people digging hit that first. Where its not buried i think it should be clearly visible eg clipped to a wall not hidden in a hedge or just laying on the ground under leaf debris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 Electrical is 1989 we recon, found a sticker somewhere that suggests that. Black and red PVC. Rewritable fusebox (plan to upgrade) but looks neat as anything behind and spark we had out for a check was impressed by the quality of install in the box. Currently drawing a blank regarding earthing method. If I was just shortening the length of a conduit would that change what you're suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, Temp said: The regs mean mains wiring outdoors is notifiable work so should get an electrician to do it and he should send paperwork to Building Control. You can save a lot by digging and filling the trenches for him. The same does not apply to 12V lighting so all the DIY sheds have switched over to selling a range of 12V plug and play lighting. Otherwise.. Mains wire needs to be suitably sized for the load, length and location. Should be buried at least 400mm deep or 600mm where the ground might be disturbed (eg under flower beds). Should be a marker tape above the cable so people digging hit that first. Where its not buried i think it should be clearly visible eg clipped to a wall not hidden in a hedge or just laying on the ground under leaf debris. Looks like a building warrant may not be required for up here: https://www.clacks.gov.uk/document/2106.pdf Not my local authority area but found others stating the same, domestic handbook also states a building warrant should not be required but does not necessary state about exterior installations. I thought it was circa600mm deep but hoping as it was an obvious route due to path lighting then there might be a clause stating otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 No one bothers to notify on existing buildings about external cabling. I would forget about that and just make sure it’s done properly and properly tested. following the regs you shouldn’t be altering circuits without adding the Rcbos as you are now making the installation unsafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 7, 2021 Author Share Posted June 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, TonyT said: No one bothers to notify on existing buildings about external cabling. I would forget about that and just make sure it’s done properly and properly tested. following the regs you shouldn’t be altering circuits without adding the Rcbos as you are now making the installation unsafe Yeah wanting to upgrade the unit, so thinking i should wait till then. Although would be nice to get it done for this winter... Some chat from reading up regarding the regs seems to suggest it's wiser to have external lighting, especially path lighting, on its own supply as if it trip it will take that lighting circuit. As with most regs doesn't need to update what's currently there, but refer to previous point as it's path lighting still wiser to install fresh but I believe regs don't specify as a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Makes sense to have any circuit that you want on its own to minimise inconvenience. that’s why I have the fridge on its own circuit, only the fridge can affect the fridge not anyone else plugging equipment into the general kitchen sockets. That’s an rcbo just for the external lights then. Look for a brand of consumer units called fusebox, they sell rcbos for £10 ish. lots cheaper than say Wyler, Hager or Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 12 hours ago, TonyT said: Makes sense to have any circuit that you want on its own to minimise inconvenience. that’s why I have the fridge on its own circuit, only the fridge can affect the fridge not anyone else plugging equipment into the general kitchen sockets. That’s an rcbo just for the external lights then. Look for a brand of consumer units called fusebox, they sell rcbos for £10 ish. lots cheaper than say Wyler, Hager or Schneider. True. Work in events and took long enough to argue that any site networking should be on it's own line and not in with something else, for tripping issues. 21 way 18th edition for £55 then a furth £210 if fully populated. One spark quoted £1880 for upgrading and some bonding work. In my head he would be here for 7days at £200 day rate. An other never came back with a price. Really makes me want to do it myself, happy to perform the work but admittedly struggle to get my head around correct RCDs, MCBs etc. But looking at things now it's almost simplified now with RCBOs and 18th edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Main bonding is just some 10mm2 earth from the consumer unit to gas and water pipe. a couple of earth clamps and that’s done- easy to do yourself. the boards more difficult as you may have underlying faults that are fine at the moment cause you have fuses, change over to Rcbo’s and you may have circuits that won’t work... of course you could buy a few mcbs and in such a case change to mcb and seek professional help on the faulty circuits. may be worth an eicr first to identify any issues prior to fuse board change, the test results also come in handy for the eic (certificate) for a new install I would allow a day to change a consumer unit and do testing/certification. nearly £2k is kicking the arse out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, TonyT said: Main bonding is just some 10mm2 earth from the consumer unit to gas and water pipe. a couple of earth clamps and that’s done- easy to do yourself. the boards more difficult as you may have underlying faults that are fine at the moment cause you have fuses, change over to Rcbo’s and you may have circuits that won’t work... of course you could buy a few mcbs and in such a case change to mcb and seek professional help on the faulty circuits. may be worth an eicr first to identify any issues prior to fuse board change, the test results also come in handy for the eic (certificate) for a new install I would allow a day to change a consumer unit and do testing/certification. nearly £2k is kicking the arse out of it. Even allowing for a second CU it's ridiculous amount, we have an upstairs and downstairs both next to each other. Can these be combined into one? We also have two electricity meters, one does the outdated heating! i think what I get in a twiz about is want to future proof for running power also to the garage. I think 32amps should suffice, for future proofing for a 7kw home charger. But if the garage is protected by 30mA RCDs and the feed to the garage is also 30mA then either RCD could trip and how to get around that? I was on one site, badly planned/designed, that had a 32amp line with two rubber box distros protected by RCD. Fault on a (16amp) line on the final box could trip either three of the RCDs- not ideal in a middle of a forest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Garage run in swa fed from Mcb garage consumer unit with RCD in that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 23 minutes ago, TonyT said: Garage run in swa fed from Mcb garage consumer unit with RCD in that Would both be 32amp rated? Going back to the conduit Q's. Would cutting the conduit to new position be ok? What else should I do? I'd atleast file to smooth to avoid rough edges cutting into the cable, but something says to me this isn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 As you have twin and earth, pull cable out of Conduit. cut conduit https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=push+on+20mm+conduit+gromett&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjb267_-4jxAhUNNBoKHSCvBx0Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=push+on+20mm+conduit+gromett&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzIECB4QCjoECCMQJzoECCEQClCdC1iuGmDfHGgAcAB4AIABV4gB7ASSAQE5mAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=fd-_YJupCo3oaKDenugB&bih=553&biw=375&client=safari&prmd=sivn#imgrc=O29Bu6NxI4z7KM Fit gromett over conduit, push cable out to new position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just put pliers in the conduit once it’s cut and give it a few turns this will deburr the conduit then slip the over gromett. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 Cheers. Hopefully it's running the right way, if not is it ok to leave the cable exposed in the void? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Yes, just put a few cable clips to hold it in place. twin and earth doesn’t need to be run in conduit , it can be clipped direct to the building fabric 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 You're giving me all the right answers this evening. I'll try and check tomorrow to make sure it's twin and earth and not just twin. We're doing a quick paint of a room that has peeling wallpaper and I'm wanting to change light position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 This is what we have: https://ibb.co/M546dqT That's just a random junction box I've been able to gain access to from the attic. I think the bedroom light is helpfully secured from above but the small movement I can see earth there too and obviously a junction box. No idea on the route of the conduit but as long as I can cut in a suitable place and reroute cable to where it needs to go then I am all happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Yes it’s twin and earth and 3 core and earth, red and black and red,yellow and blue being the old colours prior to 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 Cheers, only less than 1% of me doubted that. But I always have doubt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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