Party wall issue

[Kevin B]

Hi

i have a damp issue on a party wall that looks like it is being caused by poor guttering from next doors garage which is attached to the party wall. The party wall is on my property and part of my Victorian house but some time later a garage has been attached to the wall and the roof from that and the guttering is poorly maintained and now causing damp. We have already had issues with neighbours over taking down a conifer hedge that was causing damage to drains so need to tread carefully. Any advice would be appreciated

[joe90]

Welcome, firstly I question if that is a party wall? They are usually between two houses and the middle of the wall is the boundary. To me that looks like your wall and they have built a garage up to it. Their roof definitely looks dodgy and I doubt very much whether permission was gained for your neighbour to use your wall (unless they have their own wall next to yours). Neighbour disputes are difficult but I think you have to insist they repair their roof as it is damaging your property.

[Kevin B]

Thanks will talk to neighbours 

[Temp]

That looks like a can of worms.  Have the slates on their garage roof been painted with something?

 

A new junction/gutter between the two buildings will need careful design and implementation so as not to make things worse. You don't really want some cowboy doing a bodge job. If you want to look up drawings yourself google "parapet gutter".

 

I reckon a common problem is making them undersized (not deep enough or wide enough) so they can't collect all the water running down the roof in a downpour, especially if partly blocked.  

 

There must all so be an adequate fall along the length of the gutter.

 

You may/will need to allow them to install a flashing by cutting into your wall.  

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Parapet-gutter.gif

 

 

 

Once collected  the water can either exit via a bottom outlet into a downpipe or out one end into a hopper/downpipe. This drawing shows one with an overflow weir if the down pipe can't cope. 

 

 

In this picture it looks like the gutter is just open at the near end or perhaps the end has fallen off.  

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Temp

[Temp]

Two other things occur to me..

 

You have a down pipe that appears to be on their side of the boundary. Where is it collecting water from? Is the boundary the face of your wall or a few inches out from the wall? Frequently this is a grey area not clearly defined in the deeds or anywhere. Things like pipes are only meant to overhang the boundary with written permission of the other owner but builders of estates and old houses never bothered to document this sort of thing. It wasn't a big deal years ago. The land registry title drawings aren't usually definitive.  Just beware that it might come up in any discussion you have with the neighbour.

 

If there isn't a surface water drain on their side of the fence they might want to connect a new box gutter into your down pipes. You could allow that but a more expensive/better option might be to allow them to run a 110mm pipe below ground across the boundary so they can have a downpipe on their side into gulley at ground level. I think that would look better (more normal) to a future buyer of either property. 

 

[Kevin B]

Hi, many thanks for your reply

the drainage from the garage roof goes to the far end of the garage where it goes into a fall pipe on next doors property.

The Downpipe you can see is from a valley between roofs on our house, there is also a waste pipe that comes from our bathroom which comes out over the neighbours property down the side of the house and back into our property, none of this is in the deeds.

we move here last year and the neighbours moved in 3 years ago

regards

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, Kevin B said:

the drainage from the garage roof goes to the far end of the garage where it goes into a fall pipe

Well, not all of it ?

[Temp]

At least they paint over the rot.

[Kevin B]

Thanks both

[Kevin B]

So the saga continues !

We contacted next door and they got someone out to inspect the guttering and have now come back to us saying they will get the guttering done but will not do the flashing above the gutter as this is on our house and down to us ! Sure that is against building regs ? We have tried our house insurance but not got far with them yet.

 

[Temp]

How petty of them. The flashing is an integral part of the gutter in my opinion because it would not be needed if it wasn't for their gutter. They want you to do it so they can claim any further damp is due to your flashing rather than their gutter.

 

Incidentally damp is possibly a statutory nuisance...

 

https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/services/environment-and-waste/environmental-health-and-pollution/statutory-nuisance/accumulations

 

Quote

The physical condition of premises

 

The Council may be able to deal with problems associated with properties which are in such a poor state of repair that they affect adjacent properties and their occupiers. If premises are defective and likely to affect the health of the occupants, action could also be taken.

When assessing for nuisance, the whole condition of the premises will be investigated. A statutory nuisance may be caused as a result of the cumulative impact of a number of minor defects or one major defect affecting the health of the occupant(s): Examples include:

dampness, condensation and mould growth
a hole in the roof of a neighbouring premises causing damp in both
damaged asbestos
faulty or dangerous gas installations

If a statutory nuisance exists as a result of the structure of premises, action will be taken against the owners, otherwise it will be against the person responsible for the nuisance.
 

 

 

However not all councils are as proactive. Some don't have the resources to take action. It would be the Environmental Health Officer you speak to but getting them involved would certainly sour relations. 

 

If you decide to get the flashing done yourself make sure the upstand on their gutter is high enough first. It must be at least 150mm tall or water will get behind your flashing no matter how high your flashing is. You could make this a condition of agreeing to do it. Taller eg 200mm would be even better.

 

 

If you decide to make an issue of it. I would write to them recorded delivery. Warn them that not doing the flashing will likely lead to water ingress into both properties and could amount to a statutory nuisance for which you could seek damages.  Point out that, having warned them in writing of this risk, if they proceed anyway and damage is caused they could also be liable for additional damages for negligence. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Temp

[Kevin B]

Hi

Many thanks for the reply.

We certainly do not want to go down the council route but gives us more options if needed.

We have their builders number so will talk through our concerns with him directly to try sort it, they have changed their tune slightly and say the flashing is ok but needs to be pointed to seal it on our wall and that is what they want us to pay for. We would not need the flashing if it was not for the garage so still should be down to them but all so petty. We also need to re-align our fall pipe which would involve access on to their garage roof but their builder is not prepared to do that work at same time so we need to arrange for someone to do that job before the guttering is fixed. all very messy

Thanks again

[JFDIY]

Although it's not yours to take the full burden of the costs, it might be a bit of an olive branch to offer to pay for some of it. If you end up in stale mate the costs and hassle will be all consuming.

 

At the end of it you want the damp issue resolving, and it's mostly to your benefit if they see no value of their garage roof.

 

It might also re-instate an amicable relationship (ref conifer disagreement) if you contribute a bit.

 

 

[joe90]

I agree with the above, it’s petty the neighbour won’t do the pointing, offer to pay the builder direct to do that and do your guttering. Makes perfect sense for all the work to be done at one hit, I am sure the builder would agree.