Extension and internal renovation advice

[AdamD]

New here and inexperienced in this world so I’ll keep my post short and invite questions from anyone with more knowledge and experience.

 

We have a 3 bed 1930’s semi and are looking to extend out the side and back and knock through kitchen and dining room.

 

Side extension would go out 1m and is circa 11m² in total. Back extension is circa 14m² and would require the removal of the current conservatory in order to build a brick structure  which would have full glass doors opening out onto the patio and garden.

 

We believe this job will require a number of steels as the internal wall is likely to be supporting and one of the other walls to go is the external side wall.

 

Rough drawings attached.

 

Is it possible? Considerations? Estimated cost? Any other things to think about?

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by AdamD

[Gav_P]

Hi and welcome! You are at the beginning of an exciting and demanding journey. Enjoy every step of it! 
 

Fwiw I did an extension and renovation of a 1940s place a few years ago. Side extension and rear. But didn’t have them full open to each other like your proposal, as supporting the corner of the house was a big and expensive job. I think we reduced our cost down by about 30% but not doing that. 
 

The biggest regret at the time was not improving the insulation to the existing building (it was double brick and no cavity)... if I were to do it again I would certainly go for external wall insulation. 
 

 

[the_r_sole]

I've got lots to say on this but don't have time right now! Just posting so I can find it again....

 

The first question you've got to answer is what do you want out of the alterations and extension? what spaces are you adding, and what character of space are you trying to create? Is it just making the spaces you have slightly bigger or is there a different problem you are trying to solve with the alteraions?

[AdamD]

2 hours ago, Gav_P said:

Hi and welcome! You are at the beginning of an exciting and demanding journey. Enjoy every step of it! 
 

Fwiw I did an extension and renovation of a 1940s place a few years ago. Side extension and rear. But didn’t have them full open to each other like your proposal, as supporting the corner of the house was a big and expensive job. I think we reduced our cost down by about 30% but not doing that. 
 

The biggest regret at the time was not improving the insulation to the existing building (it was double brick and no cavity)... if I were to do it again I would certainly go for external wall insulation. 
 

 

Thanks for the welcome and quick reply!

 

We have had an initial chat with a building contractor and he said the same about the corner of the house (£15-20k worth of steels apparently) so we need a rethink. How did you get around it? If we do similar it will mean an extension to the side but will still have that bit of corner wall.

 

External wall insulation - why did you not go for it? 

[AdamD]

45 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

I've got lots to say on this but don't have time right now! Just posting so I can find it again....

 

The first question you've got to answer is what do you want out of the alterations and extension? what spaces are you adding, and what character of space are you trying to create? Is it just making the spaces you have slightly bigger or is there a different problem you are trying to solve with the alteraions?

Great, look forward to reading what you have to say!

 

We have lived here for 4 years having refurbished all of it (before we moved in) apart from the kitchen as the money ran out and the kitchen was absolutely fine, if a little dated, but everything else needed renovation. We have come to realise that we do not use the dining room much other than occasional meals, Christmas and for me currently working from home due to covid. In addition, the kitchen is small and galley like which is why we want to remove the wall and extend out by 1 metre (can't go more as our side access is 1.95m and we need to retain some space down there). Opening it up and extending out the back will give us a large social space whereby we can transform the kitchen by introducing an island pretty much where the wall is now and have cupboard units all across the wall that will be extended out to the side and down into what is now the conservatory. We will still have a dining table and chairs and likely a sofa area in the back extension (from where the dining room is now). It will not make the entire space open plan permanently as we have doors to the lounge so that allows us to open up and close as and when required. Essentially, the kitchen, dining room and conservatory are all a bit disparate at the moment and we want to bring it together more.

Edited October 13, 2020 by AdamD

[Gav_P]

14 minutes ago, AdamD said:

Thanks for the welcome and quick reply!

 

We have had an initial chat with a building contractor and he said the same about the corner of the house (£15-20k worth of steels apparently) so we need a rethink. How did you get around it? If we do similar it will mean an extension to the side but will still have that bit of corner wall.

 

External wall insulation - why did you not go for it? 

I treated them as 2 different extensions. I just had a doorway to the side extension which had a utility off the kitchen (back half of side extension) and a loo off the hallway. 
 

Regarding the rear extension I had two larger openings with a short support wall in the middle. Which took the steels for the rear wall and the removed wall between existing kitchen and dining room. (Old kitchen space became the circulation area, old dining room area became kitchen area and extension became dining and sitting area. 
 

As for not doing the exterior wall insulation... I just didn’t understand anything about insulation generally to even think that it needed doing.

[the_r_sole]

If you've only got 1950 clear and you're adding 1000mm internally you're not going to have much over 600mm left for access around by the time you've built a wall!

 

I still don't get any real sense of what you want out of it, I get that you want a bigger kitchen but you've haven't said anything about the quality of space you want, I know you're starting from the practical point of saying we can add 1m all the way round but is all that expensive floor area working hard for you?

As a thought, do you need the doors between the kitchen and the lounge? I would be tempted to remove them and then push the kitchen to that side (using the extra wall room you now have) and then extend the width of the kitchen out to where you need and have a dining table in the area of the current kitchen...

Or do you really want a wc and utility? were they just added in because you can?

 

[AdamD]

1 hour ago, the_r_sole said:

If you've only got 1950 clear and you're adding 1000mm internally you're not going to have much over 600mm left for access around by the time you've built a wall!

 

I still don't get any real sense of what you want out of it, I get that you want a bigger kitchen but you've haven't said anything about the quality of space you want, I know you're starting from the practical point of saying we can add 1m all the way round but is all that expensive floor area working hard for you?

As a thought, do you need the doors between the kitchen and the lounge? I would be tempted to remove them and then push the kitchen to that side (using the extra wall room you now have) and then extend the width of the kitchen out to where you need and have a dining table in the area of the current kitchen...

Or do you really want a wc and utility? were they just added in because you can?

 

True but there is a wall there already so surely that has to be factored in. Imagine that wasn’t there and we’ve got say, 2500mm to start with.

 

Sorry, thought I’d answered the query about what we want.

 

1. A more social space. Current kitchen is a galley (pic attached) so removing a wall and adding 1m would provide the opportunity to put an island in there with seating. Kitchen units would then run down the external wall into what is now the conservatory. Opening up makes the whole space more sociable. Currently it can take 1/2 people when activity is going on. 
 

2. Utility takes the washing machine from the kitchen. It can be heard in the kitchen, dining room and lounge when doors open which is not pleasant. Also offers more storage.

 

3. Seating area where the dining room would be extended out. It would leave us with 3 sociable spaces rather than what we have now.

 

4. Downstairs toilet is a high on the list as it is a key requirement.

 

There are probably more things but these stand out.

 

There are no doors between kitchen and lounge currently, it’s dining room and lounge. No chance of getting a dining table comfortably in the kitchen, as you’ll see from the picture.

 

Had another indicative quote yesterday just for the back extension (12-13sqm), knock through and utility. £48k - absolutely ridiculous. That’s without a kitchen and he said another £10k for the toilet.

 

We have come to the conclusion that it isn’t happening so looks like an off the shelf kitchen it is and save the rest of our cash. No idea what to do with the current conservatory but it’s had its day so needs to go. 
 

Looking in the area we live, we’d need to spend another £75-100k on something slightly bigger and even then there is nothing that is to our spec so another £50k to renovate. The housing market truly is broken in this country. I guess that’s why builders are so expensive as people are between a rock and a hard place.

Edited October 14, 2020 by AdamD

[AdamD]

Deleted, photo posted in error

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by AdamD