puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Take a look at our Kitchen - as you can see it has only one external window, which is facing a hedge at 1m (so we might even leave it out). Both Living and Garden room are very bright as you can imagine, and we already figured we'd put a sun tunnel right next to the kitchen too. But using 3D renders the kitchen looks pretty dark: This render is supposed to be around 1pm. What gives? Is this a limitation of rendering? Or will we have to simply resort to turning on the lights? Or are there other options, is the design fundamentally flawed somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I think you want some numbers to help you judge. That is, get the light modeller to give you light intensity figures, then compare them to a real environment measured with a meter. I think you will struggle with that layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I think you want some numbers to help you judge. That is, get the light modeller to give you light intensity figures, then compare them to a real environment measured with a meter. Any suggestions where to find a light modeller? ? I assume you mean some program, not 'a person', I don't think mine (chief architect) has it, so I'd be happy to quickly throw together a copy of my house into e.g. Sketchup if that has it? 32 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I think you will struggle with that layout. As we're all aware every layout is a compromise somewhere.. but can you be more specific? Of course swapping kitchen with garden room will fix it! But then our dining is dark. Or we could remove 'garden room' and squeeze everything into the main space, but then everything is cramped. Punching a light tunnel straight through to the roof might improve things but would it even fix it? Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) I would hope that if you have a package or a person that drew the 3d above it can give you some real numbers based on whatever assumptions it makes to give a projection of simulated daylight. I cannot identify particular packages. There are formulas which tell you light intensity wrt distance from windows, and there may even be stuff in the Building Regs. Anecdotally, my kitchen is approx 6m x 4.5m, with approx 4-4.5sqm of north facing glazing (having taken frames and obstructions off), in the Midlands, and I find that I need to use lights quite a lot of the time for eg making recipes. I think it unlikely that sufficient light will make it into your kitchen space to avoid needing lights nearly all the time. I would say it is an open question whether your living space would have enough light to eg read at the non-window side - unless you have skylights or they are full height windows. F Edited June 21, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I would hope that if you have a package or a person that drew the 3d above it can give you some real numbers based on whatever assumptions it makes to give a projection of simulated daylight. I cannot identify particular packages. There are formulas which tell you light intensity wrt distance from windows, and there may even be stuff in the Building Regs. Ah yes, the render is my own on Chief Architect X12, but I didn't pay a lot of attention to lighting settings. But my architect - quite capable as far as we can tell - produced the same design, so she at least didn't consider the setup a 'disaster'. 10 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Anecdotally, my kitchen is approx 6m x 4.5m, with approx 4-4.5sqm of north facing glazing (having taken frames and obstructions off), in the Midlands, and I find that I need to use lights quite a lot of the time for eg making recipes. I think it unlikely that sufficient light will make it into your kitchen space to avoid needing lights nearly all the time. I would say it is an open question whether your living space would have enough light to eg read at the non-window side - unless you have skylights or they are full height windows. Thanks - perhaps the point here is more about 'expectations' - what is reasonable to expect for a house. My wife is adamant about having a "bright home" but does that mean a glass conservatory with 5 high yield airconditioners..... Maybe my real question is: "How can you make sure a house feels bright everywhere, all the time", noting that even if irrational, humans tend to equate electric lights as a "negative" in this context. Will this design *feel* dark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riv990 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 you could possibly put a higher window in and fit cupboards above to match the ones opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Ask your architect some detailed questions. Her skill and judgement should give her an edge in commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, riv990 said: you could possibly put a higher window in and fit cupboards above to match the ones opposite Do you mean this? Not sure what you mean 'match opposite' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Ask your architect some detailed questions. Her skill and judgement should give her an edge in commenting. Ask an architect? At 80gbp/hour! This is why I have buildhub Seriously though, agreed the 'final say' should be arch.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, puntloos said: Ask an architect? At 80gbp/hour! This is why I have buildhub Seriously though, agreed the 'final say' should be arch.. I would expect your arch to answer concise followup questions without excessive extra charge. I mean - this one should be about 5-10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 You have too many cupboards already - and the ones above the arch will either have to be short so the arch doesn't feel low, or you've got very high ceilings already and those will need steps... If you really need them, put another full height in to the left of the sliding (??) doors and at least make it all useable space. Just counting up what I can see, you have roughly 3 times the number of cupboards that are found in a "standard" kitchen - looking at the plans, you can't open the far left ones above the sink side as they will hit the ovens. I would move the ovens to the left side of the utility door with the microwave, put a full height pair of cabinets where the ovens now are that mirrors the cupboard / fridge at the other end, and then put a big wide window between the two at eye height, with a splayed / sloping cill so no-one can put anything on it and block the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntloos Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, PeterW said: You have too many cupboards already - and the ones above the arch will either have to be short so the arch doesn't feel low, or you've got very high ceilings already and those will need steps... If you really need them, put another full height in to the left of the sliding (??) doors and at least make it all useable space. 2m70 ceilings.. 1 hour ago, PeterW said: Just counting up what I can see, you have roughly 3 times the number of cupboards that are found in a "standard" kitchen Not convinced I need them, honestly! If you're right and it has 3x more than normal.. I just 'filled the walls' for now, didnt give much thought to actual requirements. I'd like to be spacious but not excessively so. 1 hour ago, PeterW said: - looking at the plans, you can't open the far left ones above the sink side as they will hit the ovens. Only if they open wider than normal, no? 1 hour ago, PeterW said: I would move the ovens to the left side of the utility door with the microwave, put a full height pair of cabinets where the ovens now are that mirrors the cupboard / fridge at the other end, and then put a big wide window between the two at eye height, with a splayed / sloping cill so no-one can put anything on it and block the light. Perhaps a bit of a 'trick' but my wife likes the layout with the oven right next to a surface, so anything hot can immediately be put down. Still I'd like to think through your suggestion, thank you very much. Do you perchance have some image of this 'sloping cill'? not sure why that would prevent light blocking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 2 hours ago, puntloos said: 2m70 ceilings.. Not convinced I need them, honestly! If you're right and it has 3x more than normal.. I just 'filled the walls' for now, didnt give much thought to actual requirements. I'd like to be spacious but not excessively so. Only if they open wider than normal, no? Perhaps a bit of a 'trick' but my wife likes the layout with the oven right next to a surface, so anything hot can immediately be put down. Still I'd like to think through your suggestion, thank you very much. Do you perchance have some image of this 'sloping cill'? not sure why that would prevent light blocking.. Because any light blocking junk that gets put on it slides straight off ? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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