Looking for decent brightness, 60°, dim-to-warm downlight

[Chris S]

Good morning, I'm looking for a specific downlight but can't quite find one that meets our desired spec. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction...

 

Desired spec:

- Fire rated

- ~60° beam angle

- ~800 lumens

- ~3000K, dimmable to ~2000K (dim to warm, dim2warm, warm dim, soft dim, dim tone, warm glow, sunset dim...)

- CRI min 80 (pref 90 ish)

- Simple control

- White bezel

- Can install in 130mm wide void (above ceiling)

- Not too expensive (pref £25 ea max inc VAT)

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Chris S
Improve title

[Ferdinand]

..

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ferdinand
proved my own ignorance of Dim2Warm lights

[Temp]

800 lumens is about twice what we are using in a kitchen. Do they need to be that bright?

[PeterW]

Try BLT Direct as you can filter on all those requirements. 

[Chris S]

Thanks for the responses so far

 

5 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

..

 

Dim to warm has been around a good few years now but doesn't seem to have caught on like it was originally expected to. My wife and I prefer warmer lighting, and we are currently having a multifunctional room built (aka the snug), which will be an office and work/craft area, chill out area and guest bedroom, hence the desire for lighting capable of both light and bright and warm and cosy. There are of course other ways of doing this but we'd prefer to do it with downlights if we can.

 

4 hours ago, Temp said:

800 lumens is about twice what we are using in a kitchen. Do they need to be that bright?

 

Thanks Temp. Is your 800 lumens for a ~60° beam angle or e.g. a 36° beam angle? Wider beam lights illuminate larger area hence need more lumens to achieve same intensity as narrower lights. Using this calculator from Banner Engineering a 292 lumen, 36° lamp produces the same lux as an 800 lumen, 60° lamp, albeit over a smaller area.

 

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

Try BLT Direct as you can filter on all those requirements. 

 

I've looked there already but will try again. Thanks PeterW

Edited August 20, 2019 by Chris S
Added calculation from Banner Eng

[Temp]

2 hours ago, Chris S said:

Thanks Temp. Is your 800 lumens for a ~60° beam angle or e.g. a 36° beam angle? Wider beam lights illuminate larger area hence need more lumens to achieve same intensity as narrower lights. Using this calculator from Banner Engineering a 292 lumen, 36° lamp produces the same lux as an 800 lumen, 60° lamp, albeit over a smaller area.

 

I'm using 400-450 lumen GU10 downlights with beam angles over 90 degrees (typically around 100-140 degrees depending on what I can get). I think they are on approx 1.2m centres so the pools of light overlap to eliminate shadows.

 

I avoid 36 degree bulbs because you get uneven illumination and harder shadows even with them this close together.

 

I always fit "warm white" bulbs but they are cooler than halogen. You soon get used to them.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Temp

[Chris S]

6 hours ago, Temp said:

 

I'm using 400-450 lumen GU10 downlights with beam angles over 90 degrees (typically around 100-140 degrees depending on what I can get). I think they are on approx 1.2m centres so the pools of light overlap to eliminate shadows.

 

I avoid 36 degree bulbs because you get uneven illumination and harder shadows even with them this close together.

 

I always fit "warm white" bulbs but they are cooler than halogen. You soon get used to them.

 

 

Ah I see. That is helpful thanks. I'm trying to get 1.5m spacing so thats 50% more area to light per lamp. We have roof windows and it is easier to fit lights around them with this larger spacing.

 

I like the idea of increasing the overlap, so we could go above 60° if I can find something suitable.

[MickD]

We use GU10 Phillips Master Colour Expert Lamps for all our projects where budgets are lower,  they are very reasonable in price now (around £6-£9) and have a CRI (Colour Rendering Index) of around 90+ which is very high for a lamp. CRI is really important and it makes colours look like they are supposed to look when under the lamp.

2700K (warm white) is what users normally ask for but you can get them in 3000K, 4000K & 4500K (cool white) 6000K (very cool white - almost blue).

 

However if you are looking for a really decent fitting and do not mind spending the money then you can not go wrong with Orluna Lighting fittings,  they are very expensive but have 1000 Lumens output at 9.6w for the "Orluna One" but even more important they have a CRI 98 (CRI 99 for RED) which is very high.

 

FYI: Part L Building Regulations = A low energy light is only classed as low energy if it produces over 400 lamp lumens and has an efficacy of over 45 lumens per watt.

 

Mick

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by MickD

[Chris S]

Thank you MickD for your detailed reply. The Orluna One looks good but unfortunately is above our budget.

 

I have a few different bulbs on order to test out, among which is a Philips Master. I'm interested to see if the 90+ CRI bulbs appear as bright as the higher lumen, lower CRI bulbs by virtue of the increased colour content. Also on the list are the Enlite Ice and Ice Plus, Bell Halo Elite and Osram Parathom lamps.

 

Good point on the 400 lumen limit. Unfortunately this puts the Philips Master out of compliance (365lm) which is a bit of pain. 400lm does seem a bit high given the coverage of standard 36 degree lamps (i.e. you would end up with a very bright room) - maybe its trying to drive people towards wider beam angles?

 

To be honest I've found this search annoyingly difficult! To get a dimmable 60° bulb with 90+ CRI over 400 lumens is not easy. It looks like the Enlite ICE Plus could be the one. As for dim to warm, I can't find that in any 60° lamps. Maybe 60° hasn't made it across all of the less common variants yet? Or maybe I'm just too fussy?! It doesn't seem like too much to ask though.

 

Thanks again.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Bear in mind that Part L1A doesn't state that every light has to be >400 lumens to qualify as low energy, plus all non-fixed lighting is excluded.  This gives a great deal more freedom in lighting design.  Well worth reading part L1A to get a view as to how compliance with building regs might be obtained, bearing in mind that there is no legal requirement to follow Part L1A, or any other approved document, as they are only suggested ways of demonstrating compliance with the regs, not the only way of doing so (you can use other ways of showing compliance if you wish)