Class Q Questions

[worldwidewebs]

An opportunity has come up to purchase a large barn that has approved Class Q permission - the approved plans didn't include a garage but I'm keen to add one, either attached or detached. There are also a few other barns on the land although they don't form part of the current application. The house itself would comprise the full 465m2 allowed under Class Q for a large dwelling, although the barn could actually accommodate a much larger house if allowed. So, onto my questions:

1. Would a garage that is built within the footprint/structure of the existing barn (attached to the house in other words), but with no access from the garage into the house form part of the Class Q area of 465m2?
2. If the answer to #1 is 'yes', would the entire house/garage now need a full planning application or is there some way of 'adding' the garage to the house that is approved under Class Q?
3. If we went for a detached garage, would this just be a 'simple' case of making a full planning application for it, in addition to the Class Q approved plans for the house?
4. How is 'garden' defined? The entire plot is about 5 acres, so theoretically could it all be laid to lawn? We wouldn't actually do this but I'm just trying to confirm what we can and can't do

 

In time I'd like to convert the other barns but under the current Class Q rules we would only be able to build up to 4 additional dwellings, each of up to 100m2. Ideally I'd like to build 1 or 2 larger houses (of say 200m2 each). Would I be right in assuming that if I wanted to do this then it would be outside of Class Q and I would have to make a full planning application, which could quite easily be rejected?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Simon Brooke]

It has been three years since our own  Q was finally approved and things seem to have moved on. The garden size  is restricted to the same area footprint as the barn so 5 acres would require planning permission. My understanding is that one approach which is proving successful is to obtain Q and then approach the planners with an alternative plan which they appear to find difficult to reject as the principle of permission has been established. This approach may well suit you particularly with regards the additional barns.

[Temp]

Just to be clear..

 

Class Q is permitted development for converting an agricultural building to a dwelling. It requires _some_ matters be prior approved by the planners. I'm not sure if approval of those matters alone also amounts to confirmation that the project meets all the other rules in the GPDO. For safety you should check those other rules have been met (or the seller has a certificate of lawfullness).

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/3/crossheading/class-q-agricultural-buildings-to-dwellinghouses/made

 

465 or 450sqm? The link above says 450sqm but perhaps its changed?

 

The 450sqm rule applies to the area of the building or buildings changing use. So if part is beong converted to an integral/internal garage the yes it has to be included in the 450sqm calculation.

 

[worldwidewebs]

2 minutes ago, Temp said:

465 or 450sqm? 

 

The 450sqm rule applies to the area of the building or buildings changing use. So if part is beong converted to an integral/internal garage the yes it has to be included in the 450sqm calculation.

 

 

Yes, it was changed a year or two back. It's now 465m2

[worldwidewebs]

5 minutes ago, Simon Brooke said:

It has been three years since our own  Q was finally approved and things seem to have moved on. The garden size  is restricted to the same area footprint as the barn so 5 acres would require planning permission. My understanding is that one approach which is proving successful is to obtain Q and then approach the planners with an alternative plan which they appear to find difficult to reject as the principle of permission has been established. This approach may well suit you particularly with regards the additional barns.

 

Just to be clear, when you say that 'garden size  is restricted to the same area footprint as the barn' are you saying that the garden for the house can only be something like 300m2 (some of the 465m2 is on the first floor)? Does this include driveway etc to? I think the total floor area of the barn is something like 600m2, although the current plans show some of this to be demolished to fit in with the Class Q limit

[Temp]

I found the amendments to class Q here...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/343/made

 

I can't see where it limits the size of garden but perhaps I missed it or there is another amendment.

 

I did note you have to finish the conversion within three years of getting prior approval. If you don't then you need planning permission and i guess your vat reclaim might be refused (work not lawful at time its carried out). 

 

 

[Simon Brooke]

Re garden size. Sadly the barn footprint is the limit. See paragraph x under class v in part 3 schedule 2 of the good. 

[kxi]

@worldwidewebs

"I think the total floor area of the barn is something like 600m2, although the current plans show some of this to be demolished to fit in with the Class Q limit"

 

AKAIK there is nothing in Class Q that would necessarily require the unconverted portion to be demolished, though of course you might want to in order to gain some other kind of improvement like more windows.

 

Our conversion under class Q is mixed use residential and agricultural, and while the planners initially questioned this, a single letter convinced them it was ok. The unconverted portion would still have to remain in agricultural use though. Your implication is that this barn is part of an existing farm with other buildings and so I assume the unconverted portion could remain 'with them' as part of a working unit. Would need to check this all with someone though.

 

Personally I'd want to remain as much built structure as possible, as once it comes down, less likely planners would allow you to put something back up.