SBMS

Thanks will look at that rating 🤔 Did people register as a partner on loxone’s site to buy the kit or source some other way? Can we buy as self builders?

Is that the updated Intercom or the old style 80s silver one? What did you use instead?

One of the really attractive options with Loxone is its intercom and NFC touch controls. I set aside a budget for automation at our gates, and Loxone would be able to provide the intercom/NFC for this.. The OCD in me wanted to keep everything inside one place, but that might not be possible. If I went loxone, was planning on mounting an iPad on the wall as a home hub - @Kelvin, @Thorfun - do you know if this works well? @Pocster, is there something similar for Home Assistant?

I am a tinkerer but I also have two very young kids so my time Is severely limited..! Ive got loads of stuff to sort tbh but I do think I can try and first fix in such a way as to leave options open.. Luxone’s visual designer does look pretty good and I think there’s plenty of scope for tinkering. I do hear you though… I wanted - for example - to link motion on the external reolink cameras to a floodlight via luxone which I don’t think is possible.

Did you consider a third party relay/dimmer such as whitewing? Or did you want to stay loxone native?

Think I’ve got it. So each relay out output has 230v live fed from the CU and then the live from The lighting circuit is fed into second relay contact?

So does power go into the loxone PSU then into the relay? So when the relay is activated it is providing power to the lighting circuit (rather than simply closing a switch)?

How would the loxone be able to control the white wing mains relays? Is this via the dmx extension (ie does the mains relay present the channels to the loxone via dmx)?

I assume that if you ever needed to revert to standard switches, you put a standard switch in the wall and then make the connection between that switch and the lighting circuit in your central cabinet then (rather than at the switch itself?) Are these wires provided by CAT6, or are you running additional T&E from each switch back to the central cabinet and then using some of those wires for your Tree connections into the switches? Don’t suppose you have an example diagram to illustrate how to support both the Loxone switch and a potential reversion to a traditional setup if done later?

Thanks @Kelvin. Did you bring these back to your Loxone cab and then use 4x relay outputs from the mini server/extension? If that is the case - and get ready for a massive knowledge gap here in circuitry - how does that circuit receive power? So assuming there’s a T&E cable string coming back to your cabinet, how does that get wired (a) into the relay and (b) into mains power?

Thanks @Thorfun. I saw some discussion on your mega-thread around the Whitewing box.. Can you summarise exactly what it is and how you used it? With your lighting did you go for 230V light fittings powered separately, and then add drivers to lights, or power centrally?

OK, so just getting to lid on, on our second build. Have started thinking about home automation and am realising what a minefield it is! Am hoping the community can help me out here. As some background - am a software engineer by trade (don’t do much coding anymore) but have build software etc so reasonably proficient with technology. I am not, however, electrically gifted from a wiring point of view, so this is where I am coming unstuck at points. I have read a lot of @Thorfun’s mega Loxone thread and started to get a bit lost. I’ve also trawled the hub reading @Pocster’s encounters with Home Assistant. The background - I would like to have the house pretty well automated. So Reolink local camera system, lighting, audio, blinds, irrigation system, door locks etc. I’ve narrowed it down to Loxone and Home Assistant as the two options. I’d rather not run both (although I think @joth from some of your comments, you do?). I think there’s a higher cost for Loxone, but it has some neat features, the wall switches look lovely, and its ecosystem looks really well integrated. On the other hand, Home Assistant looks infinitely flexible with more support for a wider area of devices. First question - anyone have any recommendations of which route to go down? Second question - can the ecosystem question be deferred to second fix? i.e. wire in a ecosystem agnostic way back to the plant room and then decide to either stick Loxone relays, or Shelly relays later? Or.. even better… if I went in on Loxone, but then decided in 5 years that it wasn’t right, I could flip it out without ripping any cabling out? Third question - is it possible and/or advisable to wire lighting conventionally as well (i.e. cable for a lighting circuit back to a switch in the wall, and back to plant room) in the event that I wanted to revert back to conventional light switches etc? Is this a waste of time and money? And, fourth question - this is probably a bit of a wiring-lighting specific one, but hopefully will help give me some clarity of exactly how it’s supposed to work…. This is going to show my naivety in electrical wiring but I think once I get it everything else will click into place…. Say that I have 10 downlighters that are a single ‘zone’ in a ceiling. I assume that they wouldn’t be individually addressable (overkill?), but would be formed in a single ring. If using something like Home Assistant, they’d be wired back to the plant room and connected to a Shelly relay (or they could be connected locally in the room I guess, but same principle). In a Loxone setup how does this work? I don’t really understand the principle of powering 24v devices from the Loxone unit - would this circuit come back to a Loxone relay in the plant room? Do the lights still need independently powering at the light itself, or are they be powered from the Loxone relay itself? Thanks in advance.

Did he install it (did you do all your first fix lighting via Loxon Tree?)

Just to be clear, we wouldn’t be doing lots of second fix unless it didn’t require BR sign off. Anything that we did do at second fix the sparky would still be testing to ensure compliance. FYI - father in law is a retired commercial electrician, so simply can’t sign off anymore, but wants to help with all things second fix. I can ask the electrician - I just wanted to understand if anyone had a ‘regs-view’ of this. Is a Loxone tree installation treated as an ‘appliance’?

Am currently looking at Loxone for lighting circuits and other automation bits for our self build. We have an electrician that will be doing most of the first fix cabling. My question is - if we ran all our lighting circuits via Loxone Server via tree, does this need ‘sign off’/installation by the electrician, or are they just responsible for wiring to the Loxone server and then I could self install the rest?

Sounds like we got a result then!

We requested 3 phase and were told the transformer couldn’t cope so it’d be 10k or so cost for us to foot for the transformer upgrade. They also offered us an alternative though which was a 40kva connection (3x60 amp) whereas they normally offered 55kva (3x80amp). Is there sufficient capacity for a 40kva connection?

Not sure where you have got 30Mbps from. Building regulations are pretty clear: Requirement RA2: Subject to a £2,000 cost cap per dwelling, install a functional gigabit-capable connection. Where a developer is unable to secure a gigabit-capable connection within the cost cap, developers must install the next fastest connection available, provided this can be done without that connection also exceeding the cost cap. If openreach can supply you for 2k+vat you would struggle to explain to BC why you cant install fibre to the property. But if BT will do it for free go for it! Sounds like you’ve got fibre in the road so it’s a minimal connection/civils cost. We had to bring it a mile down the road as no fibre on the lane.

You will (in England anyway) need to show gigabit ready connection for building control. It also depends on what you’ll be getting. You might get a free ‘fiber’ connection that isn’t really fiber and is 50 or 100 meg. Getting a fiber line directly from openreach will only be fttp (fiber to the property) 1 gigabit or more ready. For us, about 1/2 mile down a country lane away from nearest gigabit trunk, £2k is a pretty good deal. Literally no one else on the road has fiber (except us now) and the cost to openreach will have been much higher than 2k with all the civils, pre pulling, ducting and overhead work they are doing. Check what BT will be connecting as I would be suspicious if they were going to run a true fiber line into your property (only openreach, virgin media o2 and a few other providers are actually authorised to physically install this infrastructure). And to answer the OPs question, openreach connection is NOT zero rated. I had a lot of back and forth and pushed them before they conceded that only the onsite works is zero rateable (which amounted to £56 of the £2k cost).

We got 1gbps fibre in for our current built a couple years ago - would 100% recommend it over a 5g connection - if it’s available.

My airtightness strategy (on a brick and block build no less): Tony tray for the floor joists No external service penetrations (all soil pipes internal) except for mvhr Smartply propassiv for roof inner structure taped at joints, lapped onto walls and then we are going to use aerobarrier once wind and watertight to seal up There’s another post on here why I decided this route instead of membranes, tapes, parging etc Then keeping on top of builders is 100% more important than what architect draws. Especially if they’re not familiar with airtight principles. I modelled the heat loss and uncontrolled ventilation was a huge contributor so am hoping it is money and effort well spent. If it all works out!!

@LDNRennovation self build number 2. number 1 used a large architect practice. they designed a fairly soul less house. number 2 was much better but I think I’ve been a difficult customer for them because I’ve wanted to bring the knowledge from here - mvhr, thermal efficiency etc plus the usual irritation of being a self builder! I don’t agree that houses are easy to design as evidenced by most houses not being special or optimally designed. I think I would most definitely have been a customer to your service. I think your challenge will be the first time self builder. I know so much more second time around and would know exactly what I wanted from an architect. I don’t think organising trades or providing a passivhaus design is relevant. I think speaking to the things that matter to a self builder such as thermal efficiency, cost optimisation, efficient design etc with a good technology mix (3d walk arounds that you can do at your own leisure) would put you above a lot of the rest. I wouldn’t wed yourself to a particular build methodology (ie TF over brick and block). Research and convey how you would design and build each one. I know I wanted brick and block for a number of reasons even though architect wasn’t keen. I’m sure I’ll have a great quality, highly efficient home even using this build method. Architect isn’t so sure but remaining technology agnostic will maximise your market. Stay ahead of technology - suggest things like aerobarrier for airtightness (an example only) as self builders are often guinea pigs for newer ways of building. Fixed price upfront so customer knows what to expect. Bit of a ramble sorry but I think you have a good niche.

Fair enough however pumped beads installed for me was less per sqm than I could get dritherm at. I think a pumped installation will get every nook and cranny that is tricky to do by hand, but each to their own 👍

Why not fill with EPS beads? Similar to 32 dritherm in thermal resistance (0.033) and cheaper when I priced ours up. FYI we are a 200mm cavity brick and block with beads and are at around 0.14 u value.

My thinking too. I’ll put up a post with info and photos when they arrive!