Barney12

Here’s an extract from their accounts. Some impressive numbers which perhaps underlines that self build won’t even be registering in their core marketing plans. However, if the failure rate of units on this forum is representative of all sales then they have an eye watering legacy cost. I suspect they will be doing everything they can to reduce those costs (I.e. not paying!) thus I think @Jeremy Harris has had a great result. I read a book last week (which I’d highly recommend) called “Supremacy: AI, ChatGPT and the Race That Will Change the World”. I seem to remember it mentioned that using general release of products early and let let Jo public be the testers was now a completely acceptable risk. Anyway making a profit is so last year 😀, it’s all about the exit.

if you take a deep dive into their accounts (yes, I know I’m sad but I’m blaming the jet lag). They are all bones and no meat !

That's one hell of a result, nice work. You’ve just put another dent in their impressive trading losses…… Without wishing to derail your post I happened to glance at Companies House during my current jet lag malaise. Those guys are burning cash at an impressive rate. In the two years to March 2013 a cool c£7.8m. In the same period they list new loans of £15.8m. But it also looks like they’ve landed another £4m in loan notes from the Scottish National Investment Bank in the last couple of months. Bleeding edge is an expensive game and they’re clearly not playing at it! I don’t really understand the financials of the market but with a long tail of investors and some hefty debt there clearly must be the view that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!

I agree. Cold I actually don’t mind too much it’s the endless rain that drives me mad. A mate of mine who’s a former royal marine always scoffs at my moaning and states “your skin is waterproof”. But there is nothing more miserable than working in the rain and where I am on very heavy clay it doesn’t take long before it resembles the battle of the Somme. My solution (as is your plan) was to build a couple of posh sheds. The main workshop is fully insulated and is my default hiding place in the rain.

You learn an incredible amount along the way and for me it just makes me want to do it again so I can implement what I’ve learnt. The problem is that’s an endless cycle! I’ve spoken to so many people who dream of doing a self build. My advice is always the same; do not underestimate the level of exhaustion both physically and mentally! What will stop me is age. Everything starts aching more and more each year.

I’ve just posted on the “Introduce Yourself Forum” for those that don’t know me (or have chosen to forget 😁). You can add my name to the list of Sunamp casualties. Somewhere on this forum is a picture of one of my Sunamps (I had a pair) bursting its way out of the steel casing. It was replaced under warranty. What you won’t know is the second unit also failed. 4 weeks after I sold the house! I don’t know if the buyer eventually got any redress from Sunamp but from a couple of emails they sent me I don’t think so. In my latest build (actually a renovation) I fitted ground source with a lovely shiny cylinder full of water. The whole system works like a dream and has never missed a beat. I intentionally went for a German brand with a proven track record in the market. I would never go near bleeding edge, emerging technology in a property again. It’s just not worth the grief.

Morning all. I don’t drop in here very often these days but just happened to browse on my way back from an extended trip to the USA. Lo and behold I see a post from @Jeremy Harris talking about Sunamp so thought I stick my head above the parapet and say hi. I’ve just looked at when I last posted here. It was June 2020! Where in hells name does time go? So here’s a quick summary of what I’ve been up to in that time (possibly not in chronological order): Fully retired (two years ago). Finished my build which is well documented here and there on this forum. Then sold it in 2021 and bought a “project” which I gutted (nothing left but 4 external walls, the roof and a worrying array of steel and acroprops). Then spent all lockdown rebuilding it. Finished the house but am still working on the landscaping. Spend vast amounts of time faffing about on my small holding (came with the house). Have I learnt anything? Yes, a fair bit: Stop buying houses on the national park, planning is a PIA (but the views are exceptional). When you retire you can’t work out how you ever had time to work! I can’t sit still. Wish I could (I’ve always known this really). Renovating an existing property is way more difficult than a new build. Building during lockdown was a complete nightmare. The window supplier/installer is more important than the window! Actually had a great experience with this renovation which is a world apart from the pain I experienced with EcoHaus SW and Internorm. Just stay WAY clear of “bleeding edge” technology. Exhibit A: SUNAMP (I might comment on the thread which started this resurrection off). Land is a time sync, the level of maintenance is mind blowing BUT it gives you an excuse to buy a digger, tractor and trailer. Plus a myriad of attachments Well that’s it for now. I can’t promise I’ll return to being a regular contributor. I simply spend much less time time in front of technology these days. I much prefer being outside. P.S. I think I’ve got one more build in me before I fully reach my target of eccentricity and too many animals.

That’s a really interesting point. Battery technology is moving at a huge pace (largely driven by the EV market and huge investment therein) and price points continue to drop. I’m guessing there may become a point where phase change heat storage becomes unattractive (it’s a one trick pony, you can’t power your washing machine or the TV via a Sunamp!). I’ve certainly not seen much evidence of big investments into heat storage on a large scale which is counter to battery storage where hundreds of millions is being pumped into such facilities. As always the early adopter position is a painful one both in terms of cost and user experience. It’s certainly a lesson I’ll learn if I’m ever to self build again.

If you read the Sunamp twitter feed it suggests they now have partnerships with three ASHP manufacturers. The marketing focus appears to be “load shifting” which with the rise in flexible energy tariffs ( and of course all the fuss around Octopus’ zero and negative pricing of late) is not surprising. Of course the detail is lacking but one thing that fascinates me as how you actually take advantage of these tariffs, especially with a product like Sunamp which is inflexible and somewhat dumb in terms of control? I assume people are busy setting their alarm clocks to make use of the cheap energy? But equally I assume this must be focused towards high temp ASHP’s as I don’t believe they have realised the low temp PCM that was supposed to be in testing?

Yes, but my system was specified to provide heating and DHW. Also one of my units still doesn’t work properly.

Correct. Equally the ability to “hit the override button” on a standard DHW tank is (in my view) a feature that is as old as the product itself. Sunamp provides NO such functionality. But then there is another problem which is key if you’re wanting to maximise solar. Because there is no ability to charge them “on demand” you have absolutely no way of maximising your solar generation. All of this may have been fixed in newer controller versions but I’ve read nothing that suggests that’s the case. Again all of this points make specification absolutely key. Sunamps capacity is NOT comparable to a cylinder.

Because specification is absolutely key and Sunamp have made it very clear they are a “manufacturer” not a “specifier”. I note you have included the warranty document. Once you’ve had the pleasure ??? of moving a 12kw unit you may start to understand why a return to base warranty provides some unique challenges. My advise is to fit them near an outside door ideally with an electric winch and head rail system. Something like this should do it:

In reality it’s much worse than that. You may receive a unit that is more like 40 or it could be 60. The technology for measuring the discharge is beyond basic (a length of wire with temp sensors hand soldered on and poked down a copper tube). The wire is not fixed in place and can be pulled or pushed moving the measurement points. But more importantly you do not have ANY control. Unless they’ve changed something in the most recent controllers there is absolutely no way to override this. Although I believe some have fixed this by power cycling the controller which frankly is a bodge.

I’ve never had children so I’m not an expert but don’t the little people get bigger? ? Welcome Jim from a fellow Devonian self builder.

The Innova branded product is what I ordered. It was fitted this week. Unless they print fake labels I can confirm it’s a Spanish product and I have to say I’m impressed with the finished article. The two guys that fitted the worktops were efficient and courteous.