Thorfun

I appreciate the rant and I know that I'm not alone in our planning woes. our planning consultant has said that appeals at the moment can be at least 9 months long so we're trying to find an amicable solution so we don't have to go down that route but I do know it's a possibility if we have to and will if the compromises we're being asked to make to our dream home are too much. we still have the potential option of going above the planning officer's head to his boss if it seems he's being obstinate about it all. only time will tell what happens and I hope that by mid-June we'll have a happy outcome to this, lockdown will be over and we can crack on building it! ?

Why is it so hard to get planning approval? Such a simple thing is mired in bureaucracy, pettiness (at least perceived), personal interpretations of the planning policy (e.g. the definition of disproportionate to the existing building) and, in some cases, pure incompetence! One such example was from Southern Water who said they couldn't approve the proposal with a sewage treatment plant and we had to apply for connection to an existing sewage system. err....the nearest sewer is about 200m away as the crow flies over roads and fields that aren't owned by us! none of the houses in our hamlet have mains sewage and we even have an existing Klargester which we will simply be replacing with a new version. so why would they say that we need to connect to mains sewage? crazy. fortunately, I got on the phone and a few weeks later I got a call from someone who actually knew what they were doing and eventually got an email saying that using an on-site treatment plant was not an issue. Then we get to the highways agency. we're asking for a new entrance off the road as it's more practical with the way the plot is and where the new house is going to have it rather than use the existing entrance that is shared with our neighbours. We submitted the visibility splays (although the architect forgot this initially and the first letter from the highways agency was asking for them) and the response we got was basically, how can we put a new driveway in when we don't own the (approx. 1') of verge between the adopted highway and our land and also we needed a traffic survey for the road as it's national speed limit (albeit a single track road so no one could get or does get above 40mph). I got our solicitor on the case about the potential ransom strip and he's sorting that out so we pointed this out to the highways agency and also submitted the existing visibility splays and showed that the visibility of the new entrance is better than existing and so the highways agency eventually agreed to the new entrance and had no issues with the application but did stipulate some conditions. This whole thing took so long that we had to grant a 1 month extension to the decision date. It wasn't all bad though, the Parish council didn't have any objections but did raise a concern about the flat roof as there's a policy against flat roofs in our parish apparently and we had no complaints from neighbours as part of the consultation period and even had one lovely neighbour who wrote in support of the application. so, with all the above done and no issues it came to the planning officer being able to view the application in its entirety. We really weren't expecting too much of an issue here as, although the footprint was quite large, we were adding an annexe for my mum and figured that would be considered as a separate entity to the main house for footprint etc. also we have planned a basement but that also shouldn't count to the footprint. we thought we might get pushback from the ridge height as the outlying planning was for a chalet bungalow and we submitted for a 2 storey house with a pitched roof. So we were shellshocked when the architect said he'd heard from the planning officer and said that the gross internal area (GIA) was too much and we'd need to lose the basement, studio (the room above the garage) and the garden room and also shrink the annexe! wtf! we honestly couldn't believe it. Our initial reaction was to comply and then build the garden room and convert the garage loft post completion. but after thinking for a bit I decided not to capitulate and that we would fight it and so hired a planning consultant to fight our corner for us. we have since supplied to the planning officer the potential size the existing bungalow could be if extended under permitted development with an 8m deep rear extension along the entire length of the property and a loft conversion. with these figures it shows that what we intend to build isn't actually as much of an increase as the planning officer officially thought. hopefully common sense will prevail and he'll understand what we're trying to achieve here and that we don't want to have to have buildings in the garden to get the space we need but want it all under one architecturally designed roof that is sympathetic to the surrounding woodland. if it doesn't though and he's still adamant that the property is too big then we have a list of potential reductions that we're willing to do. And that's where we're at with the planning application at the moment. there's another extension in place until the middle of June so hopefully we can come to some sort of agreement to get the house built. fingers crossed!

yep. agreed! I'm a self employed IT consultant with my own company and I sent an email to Control-4 explaining that I was looking to expand in to home automation alongside my existing networking/server business and wanted to become a C4 installer. This was just so I could do my own system with no real plans to ever do other installs. I never heard back from them! I might try again at some point. you never know, it could be a new way of life for me. I could do a buildhub member discount. ?

as far as I know you don't pay for C4 software upgrades but you do have to pay for the installer to do the work! so, no free lunch at all. also, I think the annual maintenance fee is a dealer option as I'm sure the ones I've spoken to have said that you don't need an annual maintenance plan but can just pay as and when updates/changes are required. again, more research required. ?

I will look in to it all some more, including the KNX switches. I understand what you mean about the annual maintenance fee and also C-4 has a subscription based model for certain features which is a bit galling. but, when it comes down to making a decision I will take all the information I have and the costs involved (including ongoing costs) and make a decision.

yep, I mean the smart switches they do. The cool smart switch I like with Loxone is the one that can go under/in a worktop in the kitchen so you can use it with wet hands. That’s pretty cool! I like the multiple function switches from C-4: https://www.control4.com/help/c4/user/userguide/content/topics/lighting/switches-keypads.htm very simple for anyone to use (no double/triple tapping or combo presses etc) and each button can be etched according to its function. Again, not cheap but definitely wife friendly! i will keep looking in to Loxone though and every self-build show i go to I stop by a stand and have a play.

I'm intending to make our new self-build a smart home. I am an IT professional working on Unix based operating systems and can program and write code, so I'm not at all fazed by having to do the work to get a system to work and integrated. if it was 15 years ago I would cobble together open source systems and equipment and spend hours upon hours getting it all sorted out (as I did when I built my first home theatre PC many moons ago). then I got older and found I didn't have the time to 'play' so much. and I got married and had kids and found that they just want stuff to work and don't want to have to wait while I figure out what the problem with something not working is. or have to click 15 buttons just to get the TV system to work. As such, I've decided that I'm going for an installed and maintained system so the upkeep and programming is someone else's responsibility and we can just sit back and enjoy everything working. I've looked at Loxone but I honestly just don't like their switches. and so I have pretty much decided that I will be going for a Control-4 system. I think their switches and controllers are much better than Loxone (in my opinion obviously) and seem to be a lot more configurable. it definitely won't be cheap but I'm hoping that I can save money elsewhere to allow me to get it installed. even if it's just controlling the lights and blinds/curtains to start with I (or rather the support company) can then add extra functionality like music/movies/heating/cctv etc at a later date. all I need to do is ensure that all the right cabling is installed. And from what I remember from the last time I got a quote (on a previous attempt to self-build (see my blog for details!)) the Control-4 lighting system is substantially cheaper than a Lutron system even though Control-4 can integrate with Lutron if required. anyway, that's just my 2cents and wonder what harm could there be to get a local company in to quote. I'm sure they'd offer the service to just design the cabling with future installation in mind and then you can build it up piecemeal. obviously everyone's budget is different but you might be surprised by the costs and choose to save elsewhere to get it installed.

cool! not far down the A24 then. maybe one day I can visit your site and talk about stuff with you.

around Horsham

was that standard rate near @Russell griffiths's rate or @Tom's? I think this is what this guy has done as his fixed fee works out at just over 7hrs of work at his hourly rate. I don't know how long it'll all take as that depends on the length of the piece of string the planning officer is using but from what @Russell griffiths said his total costs were that's a lot more than 7hrs of work!

I assume he didn't get the job then!

thanks guys. interesting difference in costs! ours is around twice what @Russell griffiths paid but he's offered us a fixed fee that seems pretty reasonable compared to the amounts you both paid. I just need to confirm what is included in the fixed fee as if it's everything including any potential appeal then it's a bargain. I guess the fixed fee is just a simple insurance policy to cover us in case things overrun. also, a fixed fee would incentivise the consultant to get the job to resolution quicker I guess? although, that could go the other way and once the fixed fee becomes less that he'd earn hourly would he then put the work in? it's all a lottery and a gamble! I'll just have to roll the dice and see what numbers come up.

afternoon all, just a quick question to see if anyone knows the going rate for a planning consultant? I've had an hourly rate from one and would like to know how it compares. Based in South East England as I'm sure that will make a difference. tia.

our planning application has a pool in it but we have no real intention of building it. it's there just in case we ever decide we want to or if future owners (once we're dead and buried and the kids have sold up if that's what they choose to do) want to. thought it better to have the approval in place rather than apply at a later date. we understand about the trees and we're gutted but the only other option was to retain the southern entrance to the property and have a driveway dissecting the garden which didn't seem right. as mentioned we are surrounded by ancient woodland so we do have our fair share of old trees. and our neighbours that own the woodland are happy for us to walk through it so we have the trees without the upkeep. win-win.

@Russell griffithsI realise that my response might be taken as being a bit rude and curt! I apologise if it came across that way. I've just been made to feel right at home on the forum and spoke as if we were just chatting down the pub but I'm not sure I'm there yet as a newbie and probably have to earn that right. anyway, I felt bad so I just went outside and snapped a few photos for you. ? here's a panoramic view looking north. the swimming pool is where the main new building will be. we have ancient woodland to the north and east (just visible to the right of this photo). and here's a photo to the East of those Ancient woodland that can be seen beyond the pool and pool house. (I think the picture tells a story that the pool and pool house aren't in a usable state!) the north end of the existing garden is currently an orchard. it's a shame that the majority of the trees will be removed for the new driveway, garage and house but some will remain and new trees will be planted to the south of where the existing building already is. here's a photo to the south west at part of the existing bungalow. and finally a snap of my boy and the bluebells growing in the garden. we love it here. ?

patience Mr. G. ?

Thanks to you all I’ve now started investigating external blinds and will look into getting an overheating model done. which of you can I send the invoice to? ?

it's not the basement per se and I will get in to this in a later blog post as we're still in discussions with the architect and have also asked him to speak to a planning consultant so we don't really know how it's all going to work out as yet. but, in a nutshell, it's the GIA (Gross Internal Area) and if something has to go to reduce that then the basement will be the first thing. once I have all the details on this planning issue I'll post a blog to get the thoughts of the awesome folk on here.

Hi @Bitpipe. thanks for the response. I would love the basement but we're having some planning issues (I was saving it for another blog post) so the basement might have to go. hopefully you can wait for that blog update and comment on that one to assist. not yet had an overheating model done but that is on our list of things to do. honestly, we just want to get approval before spending money on getting that sort of thing for this design as if the planning department are completely against it and we need to redesign something then that's just wasted money. I would rather get the approval and then put in for a minor change if we have to do something to fix overheating. we have the brise soleil upstairs in the entrance hall on the south which should help and there are trees just to the east of the house that will also help and we have the overhangs to the annex and the garden room which should help in the summer as well. I have thought about the other windows and how we might stop overheating but I haven't got that far yet. I know this is probably a backwards way of doing it and not recommended but we've been bitten before by spending money that ends up being just thrown away (see 'The journey so far... blog post for details) that we're trying to not fall in to that trap again. I do appreciate your comments and advice though! ?

thanks Jeremy. didn't know the 10m from the watercourse rule, but we do have the space so we could, in theory, move it further from the ditch if required although that might put it within 9m of the ancient woodland and we might have issues with roots.

Once we'd exchanged on the bungalow we knew that completion would happen and so we didn't waste any time in interviewing and hiring an architect. We got 3 different architects to come round to see us (it was supposed to be 4 but the 4th didn't seem to be interested as after I phoned and left a message with details as to what we wanted I got a voicemail back saying he'd received a message about an extension or something rather than the complete demolition and self-build we're doing! it goes without saying that I didn't call him back). All 3 came to site to have a look around and for us to get a feeling if we'd be able to work with them. we then got quotes and all were pretty similar but we chose the chap we thought we'd most like to work with. After an initial consultation he came up with a few sketches which we were completely not what we wanted and we also questioned as to whether he even listened to us at the initial meeting. We were thinking of phoning around and trying other architects but we went for a meeting and explained how we felt and he said, no worries I'm never going to get it right first time and we took aspects from each of the sketches and discussed it all and now we have final plans that we absolutely love! My mum is getting on in years and she lives alone about a 50 minute drive from us and so I broached the subject of her coming to live with us which she loved the idea of. I thought it'd be great for her to be able to see her Grandchildren every day and also meant I could be near if/when she needed help with something as otherwise it would be about 3hrs out of my already busy life to pop and see her to fix her computer or put up a shelf or do whatever! so this would be a win-win for both of us. So the architect has designed in an annexe to the main house for my mum to live in which keeps her separate so she has a semblance of independent living but as her health declines I am nearby if required. Anyway, on to the plans...here is the site plan and the elevations we love what the architect has come up with. loads of glass and a fabulous entrance and full height hallway and windows that go from the floor (although the quotes from the window companies are pretty high and, in some cases, are about the same as the timber frame!). We also decided to go with Shou Sugi Ban larch cladding (https://shousugiban.co.uk/range/charred-larch-cladding/ - the Takage style of charring) for the main building with standard larch on the single story parts and entrance to contrast the black. it would seem that we have expensive tastes, but as this is the forever home we're willing to spend more to make it right so we don't have to do this all over again. All we can do now is hope that the planning officer loves it and signs off on it! Forgot to mention that we built a scale model of the house (not including the basement), plot and surrounding trees and hedges. it was fun to do!

thanks for the advice. the architect said it will comply with the regulations so I have to trust him on that. I'm confident all will be well. maybe a little naive but only time will tell. I have so much other stuff to research that I have to leave some of it up to the professionals, although I'm sure I will get to treatment plants at some point soon.

there is a ditch next to the road where the existing Klargester discharges to so we're working on the assumption that we can also do the same with the new treatment plant in accordance with the new rules that have come in to effect. We can't use the existing one (or rather don't want to) as we're currently using it for the existing bungalow so running new pipes to it before demolishing the existing property would be a nightmare, it's a long way from the new proposed building, it's also currently sited in what will be our back garden so would rather not have it there. hope that makes sense!

A long time ago (about 15 years) in a county not so far away I met and married my wife. Soon after we had a couple of kids and started thinking about our future. When I was a teenager my parents moved us abroad and built their own house and I think that sowed the seed for me as it seems that I've always wanted to build my own house and would sit down and watch Grand Designs back in the day and be drawn to the idea of it all. So about 10 years ago we decided that we wanted to build our own house but weren't in a position financially to do so but I was always keeping my eye out for something with potential and signed up to self-build websites and plot searches just in case something popped up. As life went on we sadly lost my Grandmother to the sands of time. The upshot of that was my inheritance (every cloud does have a silver lining I guess) that gave us a bit more capital to allow us to widen our search a little. Then about 4 years ago we found a house within 1.5 acres that was ripe for knocking down and starting again. it would've stretched our finances but we could've lived in it for a bit to get those sorted out while we planned for the build. We put an offer in and it was accepted. We were so excited about it all that we got an architect involved and paid for surveys to be done and drawings to be made only for the sellers to let us know while we were out of the country on a family holiday that they'd decided to accept another offer on the house and would no longer be selling to us. talk about a kick in teeth! we were shellshocked. But, life goes on I guess and a year later we found a steel framed agricultural barn with 4 acres of land/woodland that had planning permission to convert to a residential property. offer made and accepted although with the old adage of once bitten twice shy we decided not to get ahead of ourselves and didn't shell out for architects etc at this point, although we did spend a lot on solicitors fees and also a contamination survey so it was not cheap as we moved towards an exchange of contracts. The barn had agricultural access over a 3rd parties land but no residential access and as the seller's solicitor tried to get that access it seemed to be apparent that the owners of the land (the Catholic Church) were against the development as they slapped a £200,000 price tag on the access (about 1/4 mile of farm track/bridle path). as we weren't paying that we thought the negotiations were ongoing with the sellers and the Church until one day out of the blue I got an email from my solicitor saying that he'd heard from the seller's solicitor and that they were no longer proceeding with the sale. this was 2 YEARS after the offer was made. it seemed that we were destined to never find somewhere to build.... ...but never say never as about 2 weeks later we found an old 70's built bungalow that had outline planning permission and full planning permission for a replacement dwelling in 0.8 acres of land surrounded by woodland. it was perfect and we had our offer accepted and started the purchase process. little did we know that we couldn't get finance on the property even though it was a habitable property no one would offer a residential mortgage as the construction of the house was 70's prefab and the banks wouldn't lend on it. I even had a bridging loan company refuse to lend on it despite the inherent value in the residential plot and land. it was crazy and the house was put back on the market while we tried to sort something out. fortunately, our family were able to sell an overseas property to allow us to get the funds to not need a mortgage and we exchanged and completed in October 2019. We're now living in the bungalow as we await planning approval for the new designs our architect has drawn up, but that will be the subject of another post. thanks for reading and I hope you find our journey interesting. I'm sure it'll have many more ups and downs as we progress but we're hopeful that at the end of it we'll have a house that we can live in for the rest of our lives.

it's an interesting point of view and I will definitely bear it in mind when making a final decision on manufacturer. thank you.