Crofter

I used very long screws to hold the PIR to the rafters directly. No battens attached to the rafters. I used insulation washers, which are big plastic things, to spread the load and stop the heads pulling through. I then installed a polythene vapour barrier, with battens following the line of the rafters, and even longer screws. The PB then went on top of those battens.

I know diverters aren't the right answer for everybody. My interest in this was actually sparked by seeing a cheap used diverter for sale locally. The unusual thing about my use case is that, being a holiday house, I'm not in a position to load shift. Guests are going to use electricity when they want to, not when the sun is shining.

I looked up the Eddi and the ability to power two different devices sequentially looks absolutely perfect. Is this a common thing on diverters? What should I be considering when choosing the heater? As it happens I never removed the old storage heaters when I put in my A2A, so it would be tempting just to wire up the one that's in the hallway, which would add a nice bit of background warmth to the whole house. But I don't know what wattage is appropriate for this, e.g. should it be sized to take account of the array output?

My heat pump is air-to-air, the water is simply heated via immersion in a UVC. So the array is just going to boost that when there's enough sun. There are two immersion elements on the tank, I'm not sure how best to set everything up to take best advantage of the diverter. I guess that ideally I would have the immersion powered by the diverter set to a higher temperature, and the one powered by the grid would be set lower as a backup. But of course one of them is half way up the tank. My thinking with the panel heater would be simply to dump excess power, but I'd really want it to operate only from the solar. A very crude way of doing that would be to simply fit a timer, so that it is always off overnight. But it would be far better to set it up to only come on when the diverter had already fully boosted the UVC. I'm not sure how to do that.

That's a very similar application to mine, great to hear that it's working out so well for you. Using a panel heater as a dump load is an excellent idea- and I presume that its own thermostat is enough to prevent overheating the property? My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that a grid tied inverter feeds in a higher voltage than the grid, so that the house draws preferentially from it- and any surplus just gets exported, whether you are getting paid for that or not. So e.g. I could leave a panel heater switched on and it would take from either the grid or the panels depending on how sunny it is. Obviously not a very clever way to do things, but I'm just trying to understand how the system will work.

That's basically what I was suggesting, and how I built my own house. Except I used 2x1 battens on top of the PIR. Make sure you mark the line of the rafters before you cover them up.

This might not be possible, but another thought: In the same way that the PV diverter heats the water automatically, could a system be put together which would switch on the heat pump if certain conditions were met? (Sufficient solar input, tank topped off, temperature of house below X°). It's a Panasonic A2A unit, installed last year. I'd imagine that such a task would, if even possible, require a high degree of geekiness involving things like Pi or Arduino etc, not that I really know anything about those. Maybe it would be better to consider adding a battery instead?

If the goal is to add extra insulation, could you use rigid insulation boards that go across the rafters? This would also reduce thermal bridging.

I thought I'd need a second inverter because the extra three panels will see quite different conditions. Maybe I'm overthinking it. Tbh they don't add a huge amount, it would be easier just to stick to the main array of six.

OK I am settling on a design. Assuming that I can erect 12m2 of ground mounted PV within permitted development, I'd be putting up a structure that's 3m tall at the highest point, and which would have six 590w panels along the top at a 39° angle, plus another three horizontally along the front at 74°. I've arrived at these figures after spending a few hours farting about with PVGIS and I think they're optimal. It does take me slightly over the 12m2 footprint but I don't think anybody would notice, and if they did, I'd just have to bring those three extra panels all the way to vertical. I'd have a 3.68kw inverter for the top panels, and a 2kw one for the extra three. The array would be mounted out behind the house, at a distance of around 20m. Where's the best place to put the inverters? I could see it being fairly easy to build an enclosure under the panels. Then run SWA down to the house? Are there any rules that need to be followed about building the structure? I could obviously just use wood but perhaps unistrut would be longer lasting. Inevitably I'd be very tempted to box it in underneath, lots of people seem to do that. If fully boxed in, it would look something like this:

Most panels seem to operate around 32-38v, and the grid-tie inverter I was looking at has a minimum of 60v, so yes you'd need two. But as I understand it you could wire up pairs in parallel, so long as the current didn't exceed the specs on the inverter. By the way I'm starting to mull over the possibility of switching tack and installing a system on the other house instead. I could just go ground mounted for optimum performance. It's a slightly bigger tank and the bills are generally higher, so it's probably more worthwhile. I read somewhere that permitted development for ground mounted solar in Scotland was to be increased from 9m2 to 12m2, but I haven't seen anything definitive about whether that change has come in to force.

I installed A2A last year and I'm very happy with it. The main unit sits under the floor with 200mm insulated ducting running to the larger rooms, and 150mm to bedrooms. The outlets are at floor level (plinth in the kitchen, just above skirting elsewhere). It's inaudible unless you put your ear right up to it. The MVHR I fitted makes more noise.

As I've said, I'm familiar with off grid systems, but I think the principles are the same. Panels in series will run at the current of the lowest output panel on that string, and at the voltage of all the panels added together. Panels in parallel will run at the voltage of the lowest performing panel and the current of all panels added together. Panels in series give a higher system voltage, allowing smaller cable sizes and generally better efficiency. But shade on any one panel will drastically cut output of the others. Panels in parallel don't get the benefits of higher voltage, but they function independently and shade on one panel doesn't drag down the others. Panels put together in a string will act like one big panel, subject to the above rules. There's nothing to stop you from making up all sorts of combinations, so long as you stay within the specifications of the receiving charge controller.

OK I get it now, I looked at the spec of that Solis and it's limited to an input current of 14A. The panels I'm looking at have Imp of 13.5, which seems awfully close. So any attempt to wire in parallel would go way above the max current.

What prevents you from combining the inputs in parallel? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. E.g. on my old boat I had two 260w panels in parallel, I just ran them to the same input terminals on the MPPT. I had another MPPT which had four 100w panels all in parallel. On a boat parallel is the way to go because of variable shading, the panels can end up with quite different levels of output.

So I looked up that Solis and it's got a 60v startup. I'm used to boat stuff which will kick in at much lower voltages. So 60v means I need to put two panels in series to get above startup. Presumably that means I could have a pair of panels on each elevation, but I'd ideally want separate inverters for them? Nothing is limiting me to 3kw, I'm just trying to keep this system small, simple, and low cost. Anything above what's needed to heat the UVC is likely just going to go to waste. As a holiday house, it is unoccupied throughout much of the day, and it has low heating demand. And as a non MCS install I wouldn't be getting anything for export. I'm a bit sceptical that the current export rates are sustainable tbh and I don't want to build a system based on them.

Good point. I'm playing with PVGIS and wondering about putting two panels on each aspect of the roof. I hadn't considered that this could complicate things. I've heard of micro inverters, would those be useful in this situation? Or, can I just run panels in parallel? On my boat I have always done that, but that's a smaller system.

I doubt I'd bother with secondhand panels, they're the cheap bit after all.

Well that makes me feel a lot better actually. I had my own idea of what to do and every passing joiner who popped in for a nosey said I was doing it wrong...

Fair enough. But I expect that they reuse the same details in places like window reveals, wall/floor joint, etc. All stuff that seasoned joiners probably do in their sleep, but for me doing it for the first time there was a lot of head scratching. MAKAR, in Inverness, are offering an affordable kit for £128k and are claiming that it will cost £5 a week to run.

Thanks both. The property has a completely separate supply with an E7 meter. Random example of a secondhand inverter (hope this isn't in breach of any forum rules, I have no idea who the seller is) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/306596178881?_skw=grid+tied+inverter&itmmeta=01KABNM23RJZP4ZYC7R6XJWNQR&hash=item47628e6bc1%3Ag%3Alq0AAeSwWNRpG1Si&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1eDtXN4tIIR6UuOxc%2FS0lIttlUJ0Z7JI8%2BWN6xaqUGAYWWoFtcYpBGviBiu9ELNmvH7YU6aU%2BaBBT3OZ%2FmvQ9XFTDopJQNPu%2FXvJL4716s1gHyn4Jyz6PFu8rGn20ohVw77ZkKLTwxBZt5kHTHuWr7Qh%2FcgOvxjp1dsXSnEoQCVFTtCUgMFnngx0DlpPVO%2FicepK6nrX7HcO6uE76fYuBhxxJttvCDWjrPDtAPGSw%2FcIsMhSKztfxfv0y4X0m4sgwtWgEPTaAC1c37eP83GP%2B0D4lF3%2BWqs%2FbFCZ9nR67Etlw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5ai0PXSZg&LH_BIN=1 Likewise the diverters seem to go for about half price secondhand.

Another money saving idea which I like, and I admit that would be a bit of a niche, would be if the government would create a library of free plans and technical drawings that would be guaranteed to pass building standards. I know most people do use architects, ATs, SEs, etc, but for those of us who like to go it alone, it would be very helpful. I'm not saying we'd have to all build the same design of house, but for the finer details of wall, floor, and roof buildup.

We could rejoin the EU and then importing high spec windows and kitchens would be a bit cheaper...

I've been hearing that in my neck of the woods, for a main contractor project, it should be minimum £2500/m2 including fees etc but excluding plot. That's a bit of a jump from when I built in 2016-17, which worked out at about £1000. I was entirely DIY but the small size of the project counted against it- things like kitchens, driveways, septic tanks don't really get any cheaper on a smaller build.

OK I'm not a total newbie, I've designed and built a couple of off grid systems. But this is different. I've got a small all-electric newly built property which needs essentially no heating at all through the summer months. There's a 200l direct UVC in there which currently heats up from an E7 tariff. I'm considering installing a PV system with a diverter, primarily aimed at covering that DHW demand. I'm going to assume that I need about 8kwh/day to heat the tank (incoming 10°, outgoing 60°, two seven minute showers at 10l/min). As it's a holiday let, it's primarily occupied from April-September inclusive. So I'm looking to design a system that can deliver close to 8kwh/day over that period. What I've come up with so far is: 6x 500w panels (£450) 3kw inverter (£300) Diverter (£300) Plus obviously mounting hardware, cabling, isolators, fuses, etc. So I should be looking at not too much north of £1k, plus any labour and fees. I'm considering getting it signed off by a qualified but non MCS sparky. I believe I still need DNO approval though? If I go down this route, would there be anything wrong with using secondhand gear? The panels would probably be either ground mounted, or on a south facing gable (or possibly a combination of both). Playing around with PVGIS, I've learned that my optimal angle is 39° for total annual output, and 74° for the best winter production. Somewhere in-between would give me the greatest number of months which hit my target of 240kwh. All academic if I end up putting panels on the gable, of course. I could think about roof mount as well, but the roof is E-W. It's corrugated steel over timber battens. Anyway like I say, I'm new to this, I might be overlooking something, or overthinking things. Feedback and suggestions would be much appreciated.