zoothorn

Declan, understand/ good logic to this.. but its doing it during the day now too. And once winter hits, will increace times its doing it during day too. It does it, regardless of when, only when temp drops below 4*. This has been coinciding with night time only, being autumn, but just the other day (coinciding with 1st cold early evening) it started it up at 4.45pm >>> 6.30pm. I yelled so damn hard.

So what do I say to 2 big burly engineers on friday, when they pack up saying "all checked out, all as it should be".. "we've just fitted a silencer for you". ?? (The silencer attatching before the trv700 unit, which is making the overnight noise, ie will not make a dent to this noise). I mean Im inclined, after 6 visits, to put my car across their van & demand this vrc700 noise stopped, with proof, before they go: but they may well say (as 3x happened before) "we've done xyz to settings so sure it won't go on overnight now".

@PeterStarck 1st temp reading with your diddy thermometre. 15.8*, in new top room (Big room current temp number on thermostat in the spare room =18*). So this is an average day temp I get in here.

From 6.30am to 9pm heating (mostly @ 18.5* apart from 1st thing, & ev @ 22*). HW. 12pm-1pm HW, 5-6pm. This was set by Vaillant guy asking me how I live, and bearing in mind the compressor noise I want ending as soon as possible I said (hence heating ending early @9pm).. so must be some logic to it. ---- As Im not getting any warmth 1st thing AM for unknown reasons, seems little point having it on: in which case I -could- turn the whole shebang off @ big red dial back of cupboard at 9pm (or at consumer unit).. turn on when I get up: but what about HW, & winter low overnight temps for the hardware? utterly hateful thing. But as I'm getting little benefit during day & evening, may as well turn it off altogether, or just for HW. Ridiculous I should be even considering this & if I'm even doing so, I think its nffpurpose.

hi Declan, that's a good suggestion.. but for the fact that the compressor on continuosly overnight, is -just- too intrusively noisy in its own right, enough to wake you alone. Just/ its alot better now new pump installed mind you. Plus I can't possibly afford to do this. No its make or break now/ I cant live like this, Ive compromised enough by not having any heat in the morning (having to have heating start 6.30, due to compressor noise I dont want to be woken by > rads only get hot from 8am on/ useless), so I cant do this too. Im giving it every last chance, even emailing germany myself (no reply) trying to get hold of an engineer [someone -has- to know what its doing, why, & so make it stop]. Im certain Vaillant are either proposing the refrigerant silencer they say they'll put on foc on friday, A) a "solution" to the totally separate vrc700 overnight noise, which it cannot ever be a solution for, or B) a token gesture & won't help me further.. saying 'we helped him with noise many times even fitting a silencer' if I continue to demand the vrc700 overnight noise be abated asap.

Hi Declan- thanks for reading my post. Im really desperate for help now- Im really worried Im going to be left with this > the only course then being take out vrc700 (still dont know what this box is) & cylinder which Im told has to go near, re-position farthest away from bedrooms, taking up whole of my UT room > meaning no UT room, no washing machine.. all at my cost. Im really concerned now. No, unfortunately the wretched thing went on @ 4.45pm, once 3 days ago: my heart sank when I heard it, coinciding clearly with this being 1st cold 4* early evening since install, because this will happen now also during the day, getting more frequent as the winter progresses (both more frequently in the day, and also the night: last night it was on all the time bar 2 hrs I slept 12.30-2.30am. Its extremely irritating during the day, far moreso than the audible annoying drone of compressor, one reason being it ramps up.... high gear.... ramps down... idles.... ramps up.... etc on/off/on... its infuriating, but during the night, waking you & then keeping you awake.. its 3x worse/ its far worse. It reminds me of/ best eg, is a handheld hairdryer on... off... on... off... 3mins on, 3 mins off.. for 4 hours. Its approx that loud, similar electric motor noise. The HW "create" period (i still dont know what this is called) one of two, 12-1pm, and 5-6pm, kicked into gear at 5pm. This seemed to make it stop thank god. So its only tied to outside temp dropping to 4* or under. Why on earth this fkn noise eminating SOLELY from the inside vrc700 (& pipes onward & to cylinder.. its even heard in rads too, just, far end of house) why if everything in the room its in is @ 15.5* as it was 2.30am, why anything -inside- has to get turned on coinciding with the -outside- temp dropping.. is as much a mystery as to what its actually doing. This has been concurred/ agreed with by Vaillant engineers, & installer engineers when here. Im desperate for help, just 1st, as to what it is doing. Then pass this info to vaillant. Then they pass on to germany. Then once its known what its doing, it SURELY can just be made to stop doing it.

Ive too much to consider/ tackle to think of this yet joe. Yet another Vaillant visit friday. FFS. Agreed to fit a muffler (this reduces daytime compressor > into house drone) and to see about main overnight noise, again. Two engineers, both most senior, both been here before individually.. & Ive asked them about it, to pls fix it & only got "it shouldn't do it" from both & off they went. I said to renewables who phoned me telling me of visit friday (me demanding someone call me asap at 5.30am), & they'll reset whole thing time wrong to trick it into producing the noise (they hope.. desperately). A good idea I said, apart from fact that unless its 4* outside min, it will not do it. So wtf is the point. And so yet another visit without it fixed. I DEMANDED very firmly, again, this not just be 'discussed' in UK, but if the Q of "what is it doing" (& therefore I said once answered, how is it stopped doing it) but taken to Vaillant enginneers De, & that if this Q isn't answered prior to the visit... then there's little point to it, & I'll be left high & dry again, with just a token gesture my day noise better. I'll still have to remove the whole thing. I can -tell- I'll have 2 big engineers here, them vs me "pressure". Im sure thats why two here. They'll go over everything & conclude "its all as it should be" suggesting everyone else must put up with whatever the noise is Im talking about (infuriatingly, it can never be innitiated when an engineer here, bc the temp hasn't been low enough outside for it to trip into this "purge mode" wretched, continuous 'cycle'). And I'm again left with it. The only straw I have, is the Vaillant enginneer yesterday (whom I showed my ipad clip to, on/ off at 3am, mic picking up the noise enough) who said "i recognise the noise, its doing a purge mode, pump ramps right up into highest 'gear' on on on, then down to lowest gear " as it does idling away, back up to highest gear.... ad nauseum on/off/on continually driving you utterly mad (2.30 last night to 6.35am). So this Vaillant guy put an approximate name to it. Agreed it shouldn't be doing it overnight. Other two engineers agree shouldn't be doing it, installers all agree too. Vaillant renewables tech team, all 3 of them agree. But still what its doing.. unanswered. Let alone how to make it stop. I cannot cope with anymore of this. I certainly cannot cope with 2 engineers here on friday putting pressure on me to accept its just what it does/ 'it all checks out working fine'.

@PeterStarck ok then im very jealous of your house. I still couldnt have heating on overnight tho, i like a thick duvet and actually a coldish room overnight: i always have a window open, often in winter, but ive never had that back core cold until this room.. with no window open, and 7* outside. Anyway its 03.25 and im woken 2.30, same noise, 3 rooms away annoying, audible, incessantly on off. Vaillant guy came yesyerday added something to stop it.. so another visit re. this that did nothing at all. So im at the end of the line with it, it has to be removed. Ive never hadsuch an awful experience as this.

No you aren't, and no i dont think so: cool top of rads but warm btms = bleeding needed.

Yes i get this, but ufh is different. Ufh works like a storage heater ad you say, a system with wall rads aint ufh. If you are insinuating its not compatible with wall rads, only really ufh, Id have to agree hands down, as it seems the most plausible reason ive heard as to why its not working here well.

right, i wasnt told this.. and seeing the +...- it suggests i can turn rads up or down here, or off. I was told by Vaillant i could turn some rads off, this was ok, even all but one i asked if in theory possible, yes, so im allowed to twiddle and turn at least one if these dials from one from max to min. Afaict.

yes.

You mean its on storing electricity overnight, not you have radiators on overnight, surely? Ive never known anyone, ever, have radiators on overnight. It doesnt make sense if under a warm duvet, is unpleasant unless sleeping without a duvet on at all, and is £wasteful, and bad for the polar bears too. The only ones whod have rads on overnight are crazies, stick insect thin issue folks, & people from lapland or something.

Understand that newhome, but whatever system, noone wants rads on at night. Ive never known anyone to. So in order to not be spending huge outlay on it being on, whilst asleep, id have thought 6.30 to go on is normal. What i find is it 'idles' at a very low rad temp, consistantly, for exactly 90 mins, not gradually increacing... then springs into gear bang on 8 am. I just dont think i should be considering putting the ch on at 5 am (waking whoever might be in the spare room), in order for rads to start heating the room at 6.30, in order to have an hours' decent rads before getting up. Its just totaaly unconjusive t9 live like this, bot( the cost, and noise intrusion.

So turning them to half, isnt what newhome is suggest8ng? Im confused by these be8ng balanced.. might i have cocked up the balance by turning a couple of rads off, by turning one of these dials fully off? Thought if i turn both off, whilst rad hot, i might cause a pressure build up, & my roof might fly off.

I thought of this wall Peter, but two things prevent me jumping at this as primary cause: the lower rooms' similar wall area is equivalent, and nipping in out of this workshop means airtight it is often not, also door down here doesnt seal perfect either.. but even so, actually even leaving door open for few mins, its still totally toasty. Also these old walls might be cold, but do act as a heat retainer fairly well, once heat got in that is, as per main big room downstairs: if i treat stove like ivor the engine throwing stacks of wood on, bend8ng inside bits par for course, and do ge5 enough huuuge heat going to combat the general huuuuge cold - this takes so much effort i often just hunker down in kitchen with fan heater in an evening- it stays in this big old room pretty well. Low ceiling helps alot mind you. I'll tr6 anything before lining this back wall, anything, as it will ruin the room resorting to this.

To answer your great post here far better newhome: i needed to reread it to fully get what you are suggesting, and now understand better. Ok 50% turn rad in thermostat room down.. i have two similar cheapo placcy dials each side on rad, with a -.......+ symbol on. Not trv's. So put one ( or both) approx halfway, is this turning the rads output to 50%? Forgive me if this is a daft q. Now i get the idea of tweaking until a balance found, will take a heck of a time, and at the mo im struggling just to get a hot rad at 7.45.. so im almost given up im so exhausted. But will plough on and do what you suggest, i hope: Alot depends on tmrw Vaillant visit tho, to add summink to sensor. If next day this hasnt worked.. it has to be removed. And if i cant get a hot rad until 8 by turning system on 6.30 am.. it has to be removed, as this isnt conjusive for any user to live with ( and so why its on the market at all, is utterly beyond me). Not looking great tbh. Tarrif.. erm, eon green or something. Fixed 18 month, does that answer the q enough?

@newhome i have to set it above what i want, in order to get it into gear, often i whack in 30* to get it going best gear it can.. bu5 in either case ive never got even thermostat room to achieve more than 21.5, even being on all day flat out. So you see a fig to aim for, in your case, compared to here, is completely incomparable. If i set it to 20*, it wont put the rads into 4 th gear/ max gear i need them at to feel just a tiny bit of benefit. So rooms remain very cold, all day. I can only get the rads into 4 th gear if i set to 22* min. This doesnt mean at all itll get even this warmish spare room to 22*.. eventually 4 pm it might get there. But how much have i spent it being on continually since 6.30 ? This house is not normal, in any way compared to anyones here. Whether its just the outside topography, i dont know. But at least ihave one room that - is- acting correctly, lower low ceiling workshop. So its possible; but tantalisingly, infuriatingly Im right now lying on a cold bed, in a cold room knowing just 1m below me is super toasty, with a rad half the size. Its gonna drive me insane this.

Hi Peter, yes makes sense.. i could maybe do this before porch job. Installers have just fitted the ch. they didnt do the loft insulation this was done by builder 1 year ago now. But i just worry if it'll make only minimal difference. At mo you see, new top room huge rad on ( pretty hot) since 8.. but i can feel cold in my legs thru my thermals, in hips, breathing coldish air, items, bed very cold. This is why my back got so cold 1st night in here (still aches from this awful night too). Theres little warmth in the room (in fact nex5 door uninsulated terribly cold bedroom, with rad turned off, feels similar). So Im wondering if the french doors plus the large window are both where cold is pouring in from too. I do have to make the bedroom door now asap.. but how 14mm of pine as a barrier will make much difference in general scheme of things i doubt.

No hatch. Id planned on putting one in next year. But I saw one layer of orange roll being speedily laid perp across joists. If this sits 5"? above the pB then surely a fairly hopeless 'lid'. I recall when grant Co came & put another thick layer of modern stuff, ontop of the old orange roll, above my old 2 cold bedrooms.. "that'll keep you warm now".. i made not a fart of difference, still see my breath sleeping. So if the dividing floor between toasty workshop has my rockwool I put in, & its topside/ the floor above (in cold new room), never feels warm.. I think that establishes the warmth is being well contained below: therefore the rockwool's an effective insulator. If the logistics of (the ideal scenario) putting 75mm PIR between joists in attic Ive yet to get a hatch into, are n/a.. then rolls of rockwool seems to be the right idea. But totally different ceilings though. This top room has huge cold attic above it, lower room ceiling has the room above of course, so I don't know..

I know some of these are wireless, but this one isn't so its tethered to the vrc700 unit. Trouble is, if I move it to a cold room, & for eg set in 'usual' figs of 18* for day, and 22* for am/ pm.. it'll be on continually in day, struggling to get this cold room to 18* (it -might- just get there at some point & have a break, rarely tho), in evening it'll go rads hotter yes, but will never get this cold room to 22*, if I cannot get the warmish spare room its in now to 22*.. Thermometre on its way. But if I cant get rads hot between 6.30-8am (same today again, at 8am rads spring into gear from barely-on-warm [an 'idle' state it seems from 6.30 to 8] to proper hot temp.. so I wake up 8am bedroom, kitchen, bathroom stone cold).. and its established as 'all working fine' then its totally useless/ just shouldn't be on the market for this reason alone. I'm having to dig out previous electric wall heaters ready for winter, fan heater already following me room to room: its clear there's very little point putting the CH on (seems to be on continuously 6.30am to 9pm too now: how much is the damn thing costing me??) just for sole benefit of heating a workshop I don't actually need warm.

Hi Peter, see your point.. well when I saw builders make it, I saw 1 layer of orange fluff go across joists.. probably gaps galore too, very definitely min they'd be allowed to & least good stuff/ ie best cost to them. Its not just warmer, its night & day toasty / just plain not warm. Even if I open door downstairs nipping in & out, warmth still just remains in there, so insulative properties of this room are tip top you can just feel so, just like when you walk into a really good new place with heating on: lovely.

Well yes, this small spare room is fairly warm.. as the cylinders in it, alot of pipes, the vrc700 box which all make bit ofheat. Plus a rad. Thing is wherever i were to put the thermostat, never seems ideal. If in kitchen, its so cold it'll read such a low temp the system will be on all the time. If in here where it is, is sort of too warm.. meaning house is usually cold. If i turn the rad off in here, its too cold in here. All i expected, all i wanted, was this new top room ( built as the sole warm hunker down room + my bedroom in one, due to the house's terrible cold) warm.. but its falling terribly short ive never once felt any warmth whatsoever in here. The damn new room right below it.. above expectations, super toasty, all day, even too toasty now rads up new high temp, in the evening. Total opposites. Its bizarre.

No trv's.. the system didnt come with them, dont think they're relevant to this ashp system, are they? So i have one thermostat, on a diddy controller wall box. This is is the spare room, with cylinder and vrc700 unit in ( noisy bustard ).

Still cold rooms 8 am. I notice the rads are the same useless tepid temp 6.30 am to 8.. then they do suddenly get going, in 15 mins they're up to the good new temp. So only partial success adjusting flow temp and heat curve up. If it cant get rads on until 8, its a total waste of time to me, and i think unfit for purpose.. but again never having ch before, or expecation of this ashp i don5 know if this is a legitimate grumble. Surely tho. Ok could start them 5.30.. but ffs, how much am i spending for such minimal benefit? Oddly the new workshop is toasty even during the day when, i set it down to 18. Top room above no evident warmth. This lower room is exactly as id expect both these 2 new rooms to be, but its only in the one i dont need warm. It doesn't have even an insulated door, a huge great cold input area, and a rad half the size.. so why this huge discrepency is bewildering.