zoothorn

@BotusBuild Ive just had another glitch with the HW not doing it's thing. Called Vaillant, chap queried whether my VRC700 (left in place from prior HP system) should be a VRC 720 newer black job. Like your pic. So 3x employees now concur with this query. Vaillant refusing to update it though. I'm trying to persuade them though, to please pls pls at least just send me a VRC 720. I then pay an installer to fit it. They'll call back 48 hrs yes or no. If no.. I do see just the black box £50 on ebay. OR maybe even fit it myself. So BB, how feasible is this to do? I already know it's only 20v, & I have fitted an electric shower myself (even fully rebuilt a 100w fender Twin Reverb complicated amp- 450v flying round that monster!). I'd obviously power down the whole thing: this has two big yellow/ red plastic switches. Kinda 'mother switches'. And also can put all house power off too, to be super-sure. Thanks Zoot

Hi BB, yup thanks for reminding me about that link tucked away in PM's.. will open it up tomorrow. Tbh there was rather a huge spanner in the works, for me, a few pages back when the talk was of £700 bills, rather than £70, in order to bet the results you guys are wanting. Bottom line is expenditure, after all. I did mention I've got used to listening to my Lp's seeing my breath.. with hottie on & sat upon my mini leccyB. So I really am up against it with the Rapidly rising cost of electric. If & this is a big if.. I could get some solar panels up, then the HP 'ON' idea, becomes somewhat more feasable. Maybe I need to explore this avenue. I've one end of my cottage South facing (albeit an eaves end, so no roof position options). I'll measure up my max potential area. Big Thanks all, Zoot

Hi BB, much appreciate the PM & this photo. The bigger interface box is exactly like mine.. but the controller-thermostat small black box, isn't like mine. Yours here is the VRC720. Mine is the VRC700, just an older white model. It would've been ideal if I -did- have this newer one. But engineer informed me it was only the HP & the hydraulic unit to be swapped out (last time I ever need to say those 2 dreaded words!). I can't complain. I did ask engineer if newer black one could be fitted? No. But basically, it's still the same though. @-rick- No the engineer -was- correct, he said 240v flying around the interface box, but only 20v flying around the small controller-thermostat box. Meaning in theory, I could by 30m of twin-core flex, & reposition this thermostat. Which he also agreed was feasable. But quite a job even so, for me. Anyway, I still need to understand the difference between this ON setting y'all are advising me to set it to, & the Auto/ Timer. I'm ploughing through the replies since yesterday ( that might sound ungrateful- not at all, very welcome: but they are stacking up adding to Zoot's homework!). Let me try & re-read the operating of it replies, & see if something clicks today. [[ I can of course 'just set it to how you want me to' but I am attempting to understand the design principle, first. ]] Thanks, Zoot

@-rick- Ok let me just try to understand this. I need to boil it right down, to incrimental steps now. I'm almost completely deluged. It's been getting muddier, not clearer, today for me. Why is there an Auto/ Timer setting at all then, if y'all are telling me that this way (which I have this new HP set like) is completely wrong for a HP to run like this/ do it completely differently y'all say etc. I mean, if this Auto/ Timer setting, is one out of three options, as to how you can basically set it........ then there must be some logic, to set it, using the Auto/ Timer way. Who would set it like so?? There must be, & I'd surmise, therefore 1/3rd of those who have these HP's, who have it set to Auto/ Timer. And so why, shouldn't that include me-? Thanks, Zoot

@Big Jimbo I'm really not trying to be deliberately obdurate. I am genuinely trying to understand. It's just it doesn't follow logic, to me. I have to shift this mindset, or plough on trying. I got confused with the setback & setpoint. My second point I wanted to make, is to reiterate, that the chap today said the following.. "You can't have a setback setting, with the heating set to ON.. you can only dial in a setback, with a timed situation setting". IE what I had before, with my 2 blocks of timed AM & PM heating goes only periods.. had a setback of 12*C. So I am resolutely STUCK for understanding here, because the consensus is persuading me to dial in a Setback AND ALSO have he heating set to permanently ON. I can only cope, with addresssing my first point (my very meager useage as to why my £72 might make more sense than it did)... & my second point, this Setback conundrum which my head cannot cope with right now. Total & sheer confusion with this, after today's engineer visit, Thanks Zoot

@-rick- Ok I'm tentatively back to try understanding xyz. The setpoint.. good ok so that's obviously simple/ understood. Right just a couple of things. Firstly my £72 (not £60! The cheek! You see y'all are already breaking my balls!) is not just HP expenditure is it. I mean.. 1) I'm one person, always here/ happy loner tbh 2) I never use hot tap, shave/ face am/ dishes, nowt. 3) I don't have live TV & only watch 2x dvd's a week. 4) I only ever use 1 cooker ring. Never once turned the others on in 10yrs. And I try keep it on for 15 mins. 5) 1x a month I use 190*C oven, 35 mins max. 6) I'm so used to my sofa mini leccy blanket, I often listen to records (small leccy useage hobby) + a hottie on my back, seeing my breath: get used to it. 7) No dishwasher. 8 ) Don't have a WM dryer/ put clothes outside to dry. 9) All lights off in rooms I'm not in. I do use baths, cos it's so cold in bathroom in winter, if I use the shower, my plums ascend (imagine a cold, plucked Turkey called Zoot). I have to take baths in winter, but not every day mind. That is my 1st point. Zoot

@-rick- I now am confused by setpoint. And setback. As I haven't encountered 'setpoint' terminology, until afaict, today when it's first being used by yourself. I seriously need a break. I am really completely & absolutely baffled with it all now. I'll come back later. Many thanks though, Zoot

I can't understand this though Rick. How can a wireless thermostat work: I mean thete's no super-convenient wireless transmitter from the interface box (where the controller-thermostat box's canle originates from).. to transmit to a wireless device.

Tbh this engineer wasn't the ideal chap. Not too happy being here, short with answers, quite impatient wanting to go asap & coughing continually with a cold.. & I had no choice but cosy up next to him showing me how xyz at the little controller-thermostat box. With a visit to my frail elderly parents soon. Argh!! Why can't anyone who visits like so, just put a fkn face mask on?!! I wasn't too happy as you can appreciate, but I did my best nevertheless.

@-rick- Here, you say at the end.. "Now I have switched to keeping the place at a relatively constant temperature (with a setback) it's much more comfortable and burns less gas than heating from cold every morning". I understand the principle you suggest of 'having the system on' in a continuous way. But here you refer to your continual way "with a setback". The chap told today -& this made my head explode- the following: "You cannot have the heating on, & have a setback setting: the setback setting is for timed blocks". These timed blocks though (I assume the word 'timer' you use ,relates to my current "bad way to do it" setting), is the very setting, you are steering me away from.

I can see the same 6-steps/4-steps & out, to also set the timetr (& also whilst there within the menu, to turn heating to AUTO.. although I can't remembe4 what AUTO even means).. But I thought you didn't want me to set the timer?! Why would you ask me to ask this, to him? (I mean I did, but god only knows why I'm asking it). I'm now getting further confused.

I asked him Rick. It is not easy. It's 6-steps then out again in 4-steps, to put it to ON, on this little thermostat-controller box. If there was a switch on the box, saying Heating ON.. I mean easy, I flick a switch.

@-rick- Thermostat. I did ask him if it's possible to move that. "Its got 240v in" was the innitial reply (he was pointing to the interface box when he said this, which I guess, this thermostat-controller box originates from.. so a relevant answer). Later though, before he went I asked if my kitchen could be a good place for this thing, he said "Yes, it's only got 20v dc running through it's cable". So I'm not clear on whether I could do this, even if I had 30m of specific cable & a day's work drilling through a wall & a ceiling crawling around my attic to re-site this thing to my cold kitchen downstairs. Zoot

@-rick- I thought y'all are telling me not to do the timer? Do you mean 'ask him how to turn the timer off' by putting this question to him-? Zoot

@-rick- I've had engineer visit (couldn't find any fault- but putting that no HW anomally aside).. I put your post to him, he read your actual post. And answered the questions, & I scribbled down best I could. Ok first thing I noticed him say, was if I put the heating to ON (IE permanently) I -cannot- also then dial in a 'setback' temp. This 'seback' he said was only in conjunction with the heating set to blocks of time. So immediately a spanner in the works. And I don't know where I'm at now on this. The setback was a fundamental thing I need, in order for the heating once it's got up to temp, to not dip below. So further confusion for me. The next thing. I asked if 1 radiator can have a TRV on, to stop this overnight rads situation in my bedroom, which afaict, is forced on me if I choose heating ON setting (which now seems less conjusive to me, than before). He said yes. I asked him if I can turn 1 radiator off fully/ always (my workshop, which seems hugely wasteful being the warmest room, but that I spend the least time in). Yes. Trouble also is, to set my heating to ON, is very complicated: I can't just press 2 buttons to set it to ON. No. I have to go into menu & do 6 steps, then back/ back/ etc & out again. Ridiculous. I can't possibly be expected to do this, remember this, each time. Urgh. So now, although understanding putting heating to ON is I what y'all are clamouring me to do, if the 'setback' function is n/a with this, I don't see how it's useable for me, especially if overnight, the rads are in this ON setting, continuing to dip on & off relative to the 18*C 'desired temp' I have it all set to: furthermore the only room I'm in overnight, I might well have a TRV set so this rad produces only a bit of heat: therefore all rooms more or less, with rads on dipping in-out to 18*C, for 8 hours, when I'm not using any.. is to me fundamentally absurdly wasteful). So I think I'm just as confused as I was before he visited! Thanks Zoot

Absolutely agree Rick. I do appreciate what folks are saying, & once visit happens (tbh surely a quick fix- chap should have time for Q's) I can put his suggestions up/ see what he thinks of your 'list reply I've bookmarked. Whether I'll understand him though, is often the problem for me. I'll do my best though. Firstly see if I can persuade him to put controller/ thermostat, well away from near to cylinder as it is now. If not, ask him how I'd do it myself. That'll be a start, even if I'm thinking of convenience to get at it, rather than your pov which is to move it chiefly to put it in a cold room. Thanks fir the help chaps, it's all welcome even if loggerheads arise. Zoot

Hang on. Thread title JohnMo, is Battle with Vaillant. My battle lasted 5 years. I needed & the intention of the thread was to A) warn prospective folks of this Co's fairly hapless hardware (new one, 3 weeks & a fault- say no more) B) perhaps glean some BH support &/ or advice, by dipping in halfway through the battle at 2.5 years: it's taken a year off my life in stress. And everyone now sticks up for Vaillant's hardware, rarely for me. All I did, picking up the thread recently a year later, was 1) to inform folks of winning my David-Goliath struggle, & then 2) to say incredulously that Ive already had a fault in 3 weeks of the new one. Ok? Thanks, Zoot

No. By whoever did the structure calculations. As I keep saying but evidently falls on deaf ears. The pro chaps with his clipboard, after zipping round Zoot Acres doing his sums, refused to green light the install. I begged. Because my cylinder was a rusty mouse-ridden clapped out affair, & the install would offer me a new one. How am I meant -not- to beg him? Zoot

No only one, hence I can turn the rads off overnight in the other 2. Which tbh is most logical thing I think I've ever heard of. Working out/ that aspect.. always worked for me. I open a window even mid winter, as I sleep best with a cool air.

Because that will struggle too. And Ive just had this installed!

ok. But if I want all 3 bedrooms cold. So I have to go around turning them all off then. And I also want my kitchen, bathroom, sittingroom cold too. Ok. So I turn those off too. And all back on am. That's fine. But far easier do this very setting, all in one go, by selecting that you don't want any rads on overnight! (& which is totally logical). I'm now starting to go barking mad. Is it a full moon or something? We're all going potty I think.

@ProDave I said I'd certainly use -Rick's- list of points to ask the engineer on Monday. I'm actually not asking you. I'm not asking anyone. I've stated from the start I didn't expect the HP to heat here. I just got it for the cylinder. I then said how cold the cottage is. But I was -not- implying the HP was to blame, no. I was simply blaming the structure. My choice to buy it. A cheap cottage, that will have it's caveats (tho 20sqM of knotweed, vile hateful folks all around me, cold ingress in, & the damp -vicinity/ not my house- atmosphere I physically had to adjust to for 2 months of serious chest ache.. are collectively a bit much more than I bargained for). But at this juncture, it was assumed you see I think, that I WAS blaming the HP. And the suggestions & info & explanations came flooding in. I wasn't at all. I moaned about it's breaking down so often, the complexity of it, & the noise issue battle with Vaillant.. which like a boss, I won. I tried repeatedly to remind folks that I didn't expect the HP to warm this house. That I think it can't. That the calculations folks concur that it won't. But this opinion was rejected outright, by everyone, who for some reason (which I can't still understand) say opposingly that the HP -can- & should heat it. (Eh? No, it can't & this is a pro's opinion, not mine per se). And this is how it works & this is how you can make it work you all kindly state (by spending £700 a month? I'm still unclear about this figure's relevance). All very kindly & patiently.. but the opinion by now, was lost. Cast aside. This is why I am admant it can't work here. Not me just being obdurate, but because this is what was said to likely happen by pros who dod their sums about this cold storage structure I call home, & this is what I find, too. I'll absolutely try my best on Monday, but rads on overnight.. just ain't happening! Ok?

Ok but when you say run it 24/7, like someone else pointed to with the word 'ENABLED' I seem to recall.. does this literally mean 24/7-? I have a suspicion, that it doesn't mean it literally. I'm not having any rads on overnight- that is a definite. So if this doesn't fit your suggestion, then I just can't accept this "24/7" settings way. I have no comprehension why anyone wants rads on overnight. Perplexing & absurd, to me. Maybe I just grew up in a cold house, compared to you guys. We never had rads on overnight. They came alive at 7am, to mean a warm room at 8am. That's just basic stuff. You just can't veer away from such a fundamental morning heating setting, in whichever syatem you have, gas CH, a HP whatever, to me anyway. Unless you have stacks of money to burn unnecessarily, &/or like hot bedrooms at night. I very much do not like this.

Eh? I'm even more loster. I thought this £700 figure, was what you expected me to be paying each month. Youe sentence here above.. I honestly cannot understand one word of. Each word isn't joined to the next in my brain. I'm that far from understanding all this stuff. Tbh honest chaps I really can't cope. I haven't a clue what is being said now. It's a shame as I can see how much effort you guys are expending on my behalf. I just feel panicked now reading yet another reply I can't make head nor tail of sense out of. That I can't possibly formulate a reply to. It's starting to seem like I'm reading a foreign language. I have to massively simplify. Strip everything right back. Forget this £700 mystery figure. Cop whatnots. U calculations. TRV's/ dual thermostats. I just need to ask the man a few basic Q's. Get him to set it. I can't do anymore than that. Thanks, Zoot

A separate question. When my new HP installer was here, asking how I wanted it set up ("what do you want for your seback temp at?" he asked, & I replied "my what?")... he said the following. Pointing at the big fan unit box thing outside, he said "you could run that at 45, maybe even 40 for maximum efficiency due to the settings you want" (my lowly settings of 16*C required temp I set the thermostat to). Question. What was he referring to, specifically, when he said I could run that at 45, maybe even 40? The hot water twmperature? The rads twmperature? Are these the -same- anyway? I mean you have hot water in the rads. So there must be a temp at which you can choose, for the water within them, to be running at. But I see no obvious place to set this rad water temp. Surely their temperature, is fundamental, to how warm the rooms get. Is this the same as the HW temp I wonder ( was he even rferring to 45 or 40 degrees even? I've no idea). I mean I can see where to change the HW temp. That's straightforward (& fwiw I set mine to 46*C). But doing this HW setting of the temperature to 46*C.. am I concurrently also & kinda unwittingly, setting the hot water that runs around the rads temperature, to 46*C too-? What is this he was pointing to, to set it? What could he have been referring to? I mean he must have been pointing to/ indicating towards, some specific aspect within the outside fan unit box. Anyone hazard a guess? Thanks, Zoot