thefoxesmaltings

Oh, that's very interesting. Not heard of that being done before, but I've not yet asked to be fair. Would you mind sharing the TF company you're using?

The BJP insurance is an interesting option, but definately pricey at 10-15% of the contract value. I might look into that. I wonder if there are other insurance companies that offer such protection? The pictures of materials with order numbers and names on is certainly a 'quick win' that can be added into the process. I'll definitely note that down. Nothing wrong with being over cautious. Better to be safe than sorry! I think I'll definitely take your approach and ask the TF companies.

But then surely you lose all the benefits of TF being constructed in a controlled environment, quicker on-site erection, faster to watertight etc.

A follow up thread as to what only can be described as a nightmare situation for willraymond, with Flight Timber recently going into administration after 30 years. Aside from visiting the timber frame manufacturing facility and speaking with previous clients before placing an order, which even in this case, seems like it wouldn't protect you if you pay for a large percentage of the package upfront, is there any other way to help mitigate the risk of the TF company going under and losing your cash? Is it possible to negotiate on payment terms? I know there are the additional data points of looking on Companies House, but even these figures can be manipulated to an extent, for the purposes of corporation tax. Is it worth paying Experian £60 to pull the credit report on a TF company, or are these largely useless? As someone currently deliberating between a few (Turner Timber, English Brothers, Fleming, Maple), I'd be interested to see how people validated their decisions to pull the trigger on a TF company. I appreciate 'gut feel' is a large part of it, but that's not a quantitative data point as such.

I'm genuinely gutted to hear this Will. Was also considering Flight Timber during our tender and they quoted us on 11th Aug 2022. One of the more expensive quotes we had back. I hope you manage to get some form of recourse. Going forward is there anyway for future self-builders to avoid this situation? Seems crazy paying for everything up front with Timber Frame, but is that the norm?

I am just about to put my project out to tender. In addition to the technical drawings I am going to ask the TF companies to mark what's included, what's extra, and if there are additionals, to add them to the below sheet. Would appreciate any feedback on the below tender spreadsheet I have pulled together. - Does it seem comprehensive enough to cover everything? If there is something obvious I am missing or anything unclear, please let me know!

Quick update after speaking with Glideline, specifically about a 3 pane sliding pocket, so thought I would share and update the thread... Apparently, it would be fine to fit a 3 pane sliding pocket door into that space and nothing will change structurally from the build. The outer skin brickwork, cavity, timber frame wall is all on the outside and the pocket frame door is on the inside and set back from that. For example, in an external timber frame wall section, rather than 140mm timber frame, reduce that to 100mm. Insulate that and put something like marine ply. The pocket door and tracks slide behind all of that. An additional stud wall is built on the inside which hides and forms the pocket which houses the panes of glass. All doors operate on the inside of the inner skin, so there shouldn’t be a break in the thermal envelope. With a triple track being approx. 210mm, it’s inevitable that I'd lose a bit of internal space as the wall thickness will be slightly greater, but reducing the thickness of the timber frame on the outside, and removing the insulated plasterboard for the wall section, would accommodate and help limit how much that wall encroaches into the living area. I wouldn’t even need to run additional steel into the wall to support the pocket door as it’s not bearing any weight. (To be confirmed by structural engineer of course). Meaning the only additional construction cost for this is for the extra pocket track and studwork. One of the concerns (rightly so) raised above was that when the sliding doors are closed, I would we see a huge 210mm gap on the side of the wall, but the glazing company said that there is a pocket plate which goes onto the interlock covering that up. When the doors are slid, the plate moves with the door, thus sealing the gap.

What about reducing the thickness of the timber frame, in that section from 140mm to say 100mm, insulating that, putting something like marine ply and then the pocket door tracks sliding behind all of that? Might end up with a thicker wall on the LHS to accommodate the extra depth of the triple track, but seems like it could work? Current External wall:

I have been told by my architect that it is "impossible" to have an external sliding glass pocket door with timber frame construction. Something I honestly thought was pretty standard. My architects comments when I asked to make the change on the drawings: "This would be impossible due to the inability to waterproof and insulate properly, and that we would need a very large steel above in order to cover almost 8m of opening. This would mean also using posts and boxes in order to cover everything, and quite frankly would just look unsightly and be awkward to construct." The total length of the proposed glass sliding door is 6m, with 3 panes...nothing I would class as out of the ordinary. We would need a steel beam there anyway, due to the 6m span. I envisioned a small extra cost for additional steel in the span, and also the small cost of the extended track. However, overall, I would have expected the cost difference to be pretty minuscule. Each pane is approx 1980mm and the width of the wall for them to slide into is approx 2400mm. I had planned for the 3 panes to slide from right to left. It seems like we have enough space to house the doors within the wall? Has anyone successfully planned or installed a large external glass pocket slider into a timber frame house? Or alternatively can provide me with some drawing detail or ammunition to go back to my architect with? Image below for example:

Not really, but the alternatives we've looked at either aren't suitable or 5x the price. Open to suggestions though.

Yeah I've come across these acrylic adhesives which look like they could be suitable - https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/bonding-and-assembly-uk/substrate/metal/ "Structural bonding of metals" apparently. The cure time of 10mins or so could be a bit tricky to keep the panels in place for that amount of time.

What would you hang the U section backing on the steel onto? i.e. What surface would there need to be instead of battens? Just trying to visualise how this would work...

Screws/rivets is the obvious choice, yes. But trying to avoid any visible fixings as it doesn't look good with corten steel.

Edited the original post with further detail. Also below. Apologies for the ambiguity. 2mm thick corten steel sheets Not sure yet what fixing to...battens etc. Indoors and outdoors Multiple panels, have not intended to seal the joints. Would you say this is necessary?

Has anyone got experience of using solely 3M VHB Double Sided tape, or steel grade liquid adhesive (if that exists?), to affix a non-structural corten steel facade panel. We have a requirement to clad some external walls & columns in corten steel, but want to avoid showing any fixings (rivets/screws etc.). My thought process is to purchase the 2mm thick corten as sheet metal, already cut to size, and then affix to the flat structure using the 3M VHB tape. Fixing required indoors & outdoors. I'm aware of the various cassette facade systems with hidden fastenings, but these come at a significant additional cost. Alternative ideas welcome...

Looking to hear from those with experience of installing or using corten/weathering steel cladding. What is the minimum recommended thickness? I have read differing views and corten suppliers won't give me a recommendation, to prevent accepting liability if it goes wrong. Naturally, the price rises exponentially with thickness, so looking to hear some real world experience on this.

Interesting. Do you have any links to companies and/or examples?

Planning total end to end was 4 years, but mostly handled by our architect. I'd be suprised if anyone told you it was easy to achieve planning under Paragraph 79 (Now 80) as there are some very strict (and quite vague) guidelines on what is a suitable proposal. I would recommend finding a great local architect who has a proven track record if success and/or planning consultant to assist.

@saveasteading seems to have a different experience in that the rust will not come off when brushed against, when used indoors. This still brings me back to my original question on how to seal it effectively though.

Good to know, but you're saying it will definately get on clothes if leant/brushed against etc?

Interesting option for indoors, but would need the exterior wall to also have the same finish. Not sure how painting cladding outside would pan out. Not to mention, a lot of work.

Noted. will do some more research into that. That alone might make it a non-starter.

Understood, thanks for clarifying that. Seems like mild steel isn't suitable at all for this purpose then if it's just going to corrode to nothing... Aware that the coating will change the look slightly, but a bit out of options here as I don't want rust getting off everywhere with corten being used indoors.

Would you just use mild steel everywhere then, interior and exterior...if it will produce largely the same effect? What wax would you seal with?

Firstly, am I completely mad trying to use corten steel indoors...Is this just a recipe for disaster with rust dripping and getting all over clothes, or can it be sealed relatively cost effectively? My thought process is as follows: Buy corten/weathersing steel sheets. Age naturally (lay flat and leave 6 months outside) or age manually using a mix of water, salt, vinegar and hydrogen peroxide Seal using some sort of matt effect clear coat - *the part I'm stuck on, and wondering if anyone has done this?* Affix to exterior and interior for a seamless looking interior/exterior finish. My thought process is that by aging to my desired look and then sealing, I will effectively "stop" the rusting process and lock the corten steel finish in time, therefore the exterior which is exposed to the elements will remain fairly similar to the interior corten which is protected from weather. Otherwise, over time, I'm going to end up with a very aged exterior and a not-so-aged interior, which will ruin the whole effect. Below is a CGI I produced which hopefully adds some visual context. The idea is to have the corten cladding 'meet' at the window junction and appear to continue outside to the feature portal frame which surrounds the exterior of the house. There's some more CGI photos on our instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thefoxesmaltings/ if further visual context would help.