Problem removing fire breast !

[Spike47]

Hi
My friend wants to pull down a fire breast in the basement , it is not the original , it is a brick built one , built around the original , have taken some bricks of to see if it is supporting anything and I am a bit puzzled has to what I am finding .

Looking at the very top , it seems there is a concrete base base above it which looks like the fire hearth of the second floor fireplace !.
The way I understand it is that there was some timber going across the top of the floor/Ceiling joists and that would of been the form to cast the concrete base for the second floor fire hearth ! .

But it seems ( if I am correct ) that someone has chopped away part of that timber along with part of the Joist and stuck a couple of bricks from the new fire breast up to the concrete below the second floor hearth ! .

 I have no idea why someone would cut away the form for the hearth , then chock it with a couple bricks , it is making it difficult now to remove the breast , because I can not get anything in there to support before I remove them couple of bricks , then the whole fire breast !!
Maybe the pics attached will explain it better me

It is quite a old 3 storey sand stone building

The 2 bits of joist sticking out are just dummies , not doing anything .
.
 The 2 bricks are only holding the second floor concrete hearth , nothing else , and the new breast is only bricked to just below the ceiling , it is not supporting anything at all .

As I had said in my  post , the breast we are wanting to remove is a new breast , the original breast is still there ( I think ) but it is not very deep and does not come out far enough to support under the concrere hearth ! .

I just keep thinking why they would of chipped away the support form and a good part of the first joist , then stick a couple of bricks there , I just can't get it .

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/second-floor-fireplace.522531/#ixzz5n80HYumr

cheers

spike

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/second-floor-fireplace.522531/#ixzz5n7zssKxS

cheers

 

Spike

Edited May 6, 2019 by Spike47

[PeterW]

I expect the 2nd Hearth has been added later and just cast in above. It wouldn’t be surprising if it was quite small and when the owner wanted to widen the upper hearth to build round the base one. 

 

It would have to come out top down - what’s on the second hearth..? Wood burner ..??

[Spike47]

14 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I expect the 2nd Hearth has been added later and just cast in above. It wouldn’t be surprising if it was quite small and when the owner wanted to widen the upper hearth to build round the base one. 

 

It would have to come out top down - what’s on the second hearth..? Wood burner ..??

Hi

Thanks for your reply .

But the timber form looks to be exactly the same has the original floor boards , and why would they chop out the center part of that form , second floor is just a open fire place .

cheers

spike

[Jeremy Harris]

What's on the ground and first floors?

 

If I've understood things correctly, your photos show what's in the basement, but the hearth referred to is on the second floor, which indicates this building has four floors in total (basement, ground floor, first floor, second floor).  Is that right?

 

As @PeterW has said, this needs to be tackled from the top down, as structurally the chimney stack outside will be supported by all the brickwork in the floors below usually (unless it's built off a thick wall, or external to the wall with a buttress down to basement level).

 

Before knocking anything out in the basement I think it's important to do some investigation in the floors above, to determine where all the structural support is coming from.

[Spike47]

24 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

What's on the ground and first floors?

 

If I've understood things correctly, your photos show what's in the basement, but the hearth referred to is on the second floor, which indicates this building has four floors in total (basement, ground floor, first floor, second floor).  Is that right?

 

As @PeterW has said, this needs to be tackled from the top down, as structurally the chimney stack outside will be supported by all the brickwork in the floors below usually (unless it's built off a thick wall, or external to the wall with a buttress down to basement level).

 

Before knocking anything out in the basement I think it's important to do some investigation in the floors above, to determine where all the structural support is coming from.

Hi

Thanks for your reply , maybe I have confused the post a little , it is not really a basement , it is the room you come into from outside , but the lounge is upstairs , it is a 3 story building , the fire breast we want to remove has been put in at a later date and it is not supporting anything , it is just bricked up to the ceiling/floor joists .

so the hearth in question is on the first floor , sorry for the confusion .

cheers

 

spike

Edited May 6, 2019 by Spike47

[Declan52]

It doesn't really matter what floor its on you still have to tackle this from the top and work your way down. Chimneys will have been filled with everything that was at hand, rubble broken bricks etc, when it was getting built so the only safe way is to start at the top and take it down but by bit.