Shower Enclosure Silicone

[MortarThePoint]

Instructions say to silicone around the outside for the shower enclosure metal profiles (profile to wall and profile to tray) rather than around the inside. I understand the logic, you don't want to trap water in the gap and it's best to assume water will get in there. However, I can't remember if I silicone sealed the screws in the tiling that were used to secure the metal profiles. If water gets into the gap, it could then make its way behind the tiles if those holes are not silicone sealed.

 

I wonder about sealing the inner edge of the profile to wall down to about 100mm above the tray. That is below the last screw hole (I hope). That would hopefully avoid water getting trapped but also protect the screw holes.

 

What did others do?

Edited 5 hours ago by MortarThePoint

[Nickfromwales]

45 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

Instructions say to silicone around the outside for the shower enclosure metal profiles (profile to wall and profile to tray) rather than around the inside. I understand the logic, you don't want to trap water in the gap and it's best to assume water will get in there. However, I can't remember if I silicone sealed the screws in the tiling that were used to secure the metal profiles. If water gets into the gap, it could then make its way behind the tiles if those holes are not silicone sealed.

 

I wonder about sealing the inner edge of the profile to wall down to about 100mm above the tray. That is below the last screw hole (I hope). That would hopefully avoid water getting trapped but also protect the screw holes.

 

What did others do?

The #1 feckup when installing a shower cubicle is to not seal the wall > tray where the profile resides, instead most will just silicone behind the vertical edge of the profile and assume (very incorrectly) that this is enough.

 

Water gets into the void, between the fixed section of profile and the floating section, both of which are simply friction fitted then screwed and capped to keep them in their forever places, as capillary action sucks water inside between the two mating (male > female) sections.
 

This water drops to the bottom of the profile, is able to sit on a grouted tile > shower joint forever, and worse is kept there by the obligatory external silicone you get told to apply.

 

I set the profile in place, drill the tiles, hoover and clean / dry everything, and mark each side of the profile at the tray with masking tape. 
 

Then I apply a generous bead of clear CT1 between the bits of tape and wipe off excess, then immediately install the wall profile into that wet sealant; I always apply a continuous bead of CT1 to the rear of the wall profile and run it the ‘wet’ side of the fixing holes, so water can never get past it, using loads of baby wipes to completely remove the displaced, excess CT1. No need for cosmetic silicone sealant if you do this well.

 

Sealing the profile to the tiles internally, retrospectively, is fine as that’ll stop water getting directly to the screw holes (if you didn’t seal the profile to the wall, top to bottom, during installation?).

 

It won’t stop water gathering at the bottom and wanting to exit internally > waste; that's why they say to NOT seal the profile to the tray internally as the water cannot then get out. 

 

None of these retrospective sealing measures will stop water getting sucked into that cavity in the wall profile, which is your enemy.

 

FWIW, installation guides for any quality of cubicle are dogshit, and I have never seen one which recommends the short bit of sealant at the profile base, where evert damn leak / degradation begins.

 

I stay in a lot of hotels, and every shower has a brown stain and evidence of leaking in exactly the same place, for any / every type of shower enclosure, without fail.

 

Last but not least, don’t use silicone, it’s garbage by comparison. Clear CT1 is the king of sealants and will outlast silicone 10 fold.

[MortarThePoint]

16 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

The #1 feckup when installing a shower cubicle is to not seal the wall > tray where the profile resides, instead most will just silicone behind the vertical edge of the profile and assume (very incorrectly) that this is enough.

 

Thankfully, I did remember to do that joint for the reasons you explain. It is a shame the instructions don't suggest it. That's the only place there is sealant at this point though so I don't have a bead trapped between the profile and wall.

 

21 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Then I apply a generous bead of clear CT1 between the bits of tape and wipe off excess, then immediately install the wall profile into that wet sealant; I always apply a continuous bead of CT1 to the rear of the wall profile and run it the ‘wet’ side of the fixing holes, so water can never get past it, using loads of baby wipes to completely remove the displaced, excess CT1. No need for cosmetic silicone sealant if you do this well.

 

I'm guessing you still put a bead of sealant around the join between the enclosure and the tray though. Is that put on after or done mid profile like for the vertical profiles?

 

22 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Last but not least, don’t use silicone, it’s garbage by comparison. Clear CT1 is the king of sealants and will outlast silicone 10 fold.

 

Does CT1 tool OK with the Cramer silicone tools?

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

That's the only place there is sealant at this point though so I don't have a bead trapped between the profile and wall.

Just seal vertically, internally, and that’s the best rescue here. Don’t seal along the base of the profile > tray, only vertically, as you do not want to trap water inside the base of the cavity of the wall profile. 
 

4 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

I'm guessing you still put a bead of sealant around the join between the enclosure and the tray though. Is that put on after or done mid profile like for the vertical profiles?

Externally, yes. Never internally. 
 

4 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

Does CT1 tool OK with the Cramer silicone tools?

The trick here is to mask up, smooth by finger (or tool), and then de-mask immediately. This removes the excess, then you go to town with baby wipes, removing more CT1 than you leave behind. This just stays in the small crevice / joint of profile > tile, to the point where it can’t be seen. 
 

I go ‘silicone free’ wherever possible, and CT1 has never let me (eg my customers) down.

 

Image 1: glass dropped onto wet CT1, displacing accordingly. 

 

 

Image 2: excess wiped back with wipes, nothing further done here. 

 

[MortarThePoint]

2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Just seal vertically, internally, and that’s the best rescue here.

Is that as well a sealing externally for the verticals? If so that creates a continuous seal with the sealant round the external edge of the profile to tray junction.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

Is that as well a sealing externally for the verticals? If so that creates a continuous seal with the sealant round the external edge of the profile to tray junction.

 

 

Yup. But water trapped (collecting during showering) must be able to leave via gravity > tray > plughole, so as soon as you get to the bottom of the profile where it meets the tray, stop. 

[MortarThePoint]

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. But water trapped (collecting during showering) must be able to leave via gravity > tray > plughole, so as soon as you get to the bottom of the profile where it meets the tray, stop. 

 

Cool, so from where I am now (without sealant between the profile and the wall) I'll have sealant in the following junctions.

1. At bottom of profile between tray and wall (applied before fitting the profile)
2. Down full height of profile internally
3. Down the full height of the profile externally
4. Around the profile to tray junction externally

That's pretty much what I was thinking, though wondered about holding it up from the bottom a bit for the internal sealant [2] to allow any water that has got in to drain out in case the sealant of [1] blocks that from happening.

[Nickfromwales]

17 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

Cool, so from where I am now (without sealant between the profile and the wall) I'll have sealant in the following junctions.

1. At bottom of profile between tray and wall (applied before fitting the profile)
2. Down full height of profile internally
3. Down the full height of the profile externally
4. Around the profile to tray junction externally

That's pretty much what I was thinking, though wondered about holding it up from the bottom a bit for the internal sealant [2] to allow any water that has got in to drain out in case the sealant of [1] blocks that from happening.

You can stop the CT1 5-10mm or so from the tray, as that will add some insurance that the water can escape freely.

[MortarThePoint]

45 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You can stop the CT1 5-10mm or so from the tray, as that will add some insurance that the water can escape freely.

 

I think I will, just in case.

 

If the metal profile is two part, do you have the sealant (a) just onto the inner profile part of (b) covering both. I'm expecting you'd say (b) but wanted to be sure.

 

second sealant side shown in light green as may not be present in an ideal world 🤣

 

I suppose you could have (b) on the external junction and (a) on the internal junction, but stull feels like (b) might be best all round. Interested to have your thoughts.

Edited 2 hours ago by MortarThePoint

[Nickfromwales]

49 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

I'm expecting you'd say (b) but wanted to be sure

a). It’s never usually possible to seal across that much area. 
 

If the shower profile is fully home into the wall profile then maybe an option, but usually people don’t want mastic smeared all over the otherwise shiny chrome.