I’m going to change my pump but ….

[Gedq]

So I wasn’t sure that UFH (wet) needed maintenance. When it was fitted I was told it’s a closed system and needs very little maintenance. It’s stopped working (5yrs in). Seems to be the pump as hot water flows to the manifold and stops there. 
The pump (Grundfos upm3) has sticky glue like substance sitting at the bottom of it. 
I’ve tried “unsticking” the pump by using a screwdriver in the centre but nothing. 
 

The leaking goo tells me it may well be gubbed (the lights still come on on it) so I’m thinking of changing it. 
 

is there anything else I should be doing? Where are the isolation points (on the picture below) and what are the better pumps on the market. 
thanks in advance 

[Nickfromwales]

That’s leaking from the centre spindle, and the sticky goop may be Glycol? 
Is this heated by a boiler or a heat pump?

 

The UPM3 is a very well regarded pump in the industry, so may just be a ‘Friday’ unit, or has been damaged by misadventure?

[Gedq]

15 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

That’s leaking from the centre spindle, and the sticky goop may be Glycol? 
Is this heated by a boiler or a heat pump?

 

The UPM3 is a very well regarded pump in the industry, so may just be a ‘Friday’ unit, or has been damaged by misadventure?

It’s heated by a combi boiler.  What is Glycol?

edit: the pump is in a utility room cupboard that’s rarely used. Would the leak indicate  the pump is a gonner?

Edited Sunday at 11:17 by Gedq

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Gedq said:

It’s heated by a combi boiler.  What is Glycol?

It’s an additive to prevent water freezing in an ASHP installation. 
 

Im struggling to see what would be sticky, that is leaking from the pump spindle. 

[Gedq]

8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

It’s an additive to prevent water freezing in an ASHP installation. 
 

Im struggling to see what would be sticky, that is leaking from the pump spindle. 

I've cleaned it off with wonder wipes. I’ll see if comes back. 
 

But I’m sure it’s stopped pumping  🤷‍♀️ 

[Nickfromwales]

7 minutes ago, Gedq said:

I've cleaned it off with wonder wipes. I’ll see if comes back. 
 

But I’m sure it’s stopped pumping  🤷‍♀️ 

No vibration or signs of it running when you switch on / off? Flow gauges not moving even slightly? 

[Gedq]

24 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

No vibration or signs of it running when you switch on / off? Flow gauges not moving even slightly? 

Yes there’s vibration and a light. The metal at the top of the red pipes is hot to touch but the red pipes are cold. It’s as if it’s not travelling down the pipes 

[JohnMo]

Do you see flow on the flow meters?

 

I would take a few actuators off and check the thermostat pin is sticking out. If you have a sticky gunge at the pump that could be sticking the pins as well.

 

If the pins are stuck down you may need to remove them and unstick or replace.

[Gedq]

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Do you see flow on the flow meters?

 

I would take a few actuators off and check the thermostat pin is sticking out. If you have a sticky gunge at the pump that could be sticking the pins as well.

 

If the pins are stuck down you may need to remove them and unstick or replace.

Ok I’ll try that- do they just pull off?  (The plastic cover) The flow meters look very dirty.  

Edited Sunday at 12:24 by Gedq

[Nickfromwales]

If you’re capable, you can turn the blue and red valves off (1/4 turn) and then drain the pressure a little. 
 

Then the screws 

 

 

can be undone and the entire head removed quite easily.

 

You can then see if the impeller is free to rotate or not, and get it moving again if not. 

 

Have you tried bleeding air out of these? 
Could just be air locked. 
 

[Nickfromwales]

58 minutes ago, Gedq said:

Ok I’ll try that- do they just pull off?  (The plastic cover) The flow meters look very dirty.  

Whoa!

 

Do NOT pull at anything or you’ll be very wet.

 

59 minutes ago, Gedq said:

do they just pull off?

Do what just pull off? 
 

The flow gauges are fixed. 
 

Actuators have the cable going to them. The base unscrews via the big ring. Hand loosen, hand tighten.

 

Under the actuator is the ‘pin’, just see if this pushes down with the handle of a screwdriver, and if it pops back up, freely. 

[Nickfromwales]

Check the vents first to rule out any air lock. 

[Gedq]

3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Whoa!

 

Do NOT pull at anything or you’ll be very wet.

 

Do what just pull off? 
 

The flow gauges are fixed. 
 

Actuators have the cable going to them. The base unscrews via the big ring. Hand loosen, hand tighten.

 

Under the actuator is the ‘pin’, just see if this pushes down with the handle of a screwdriver, and if it pops back up, freely. 

Ok. I’ll be cautious.  But I think the “airlock” recommendation has worked 👏👏👏.  I didn’t know this could be bled. Plenty air came out and the pipes warmed up immediately.  Just waiting on the return pipes feeling warm (and the other tell tale sign of my floor creaking).  
 

thanks so much. 

[Gedq]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

Check the vents first to rule out any air lock. 

looks to have done the trick. I also remember keeping a deep fat fryer in that cupboard (3 or more years ago). Perhaps the gunk was from that. 
 

I think I’ll call in the professionals to give it a good servicing.  
 

[JohnMo]

Normally simple stuff that trips up systems.

 

And old chip oil - that wouldn't have come up after a 1000 questions.

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Gedq said:

I also remember keeping a deep fat fryer in that cupboard (3 or more years ago). Perhaps the gunk was from that. 

🤣🤣. 
 

Glad you got it sorted and thanks for the chip oil bum steer. Another BH victory in the most peculiar way. 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, Gedq said:

I think I’ll call in the professionals to give it a good servicing.

Maybe give this a rethink. 
 

Having your gas burning appliance(s) serviced annually is a very good idea, but prob leave them far away from the UFH as some are clueless. 

[Nickfromwales]

@Gedq

 

 

These can be unscrewed and automatic air vents put in their place. I bin those manual ones and always fit automatic ones to minimise maintenance etc. 

 

Buy 2 of these LINK and then these UFH rails will auto bleed themselves. 
 

The little cap on top, like the air cap on a car tire, needs to be 2 turns loose or it won’t vent, but not taken off completely.

 

If you want to do this then reply here and we’ll talk you through it, or order them and ask a plumber to fit them for you. 
 

15 minute job start to finish. 

[John Carroll]

A bit off topic but why are those UPM pumps so popular on UFH manifolds?,

[JohnMo]

6 minutes ago, John Carroll said:

A bit off topic but why are those UPM pumps so popular on UFH manifolds?,

Not sure, when I had a UFH pump, the first one lasted about 2 years before it became noisy. Did away with pump and mixer in the end - totally silent now.

 

I suspect there is a decent markup for sellers.

[Nickfromwales]

31 minutes ago, John Carroll said:

A bit off topic but why are those UPM pumps so popular on UFH manifolds?,

They’re quite ‘intelligent’ pumps, for a generic off-the-shelf solution that most suppliers can spit out with ease.

 

That plus Grundfos are industry standard for pumps, like Hoover was for vacuum cleaners.

 

Wilo are making some good pumps these days too.