Toilet seats with a lid for wheelchair accessible toilets (Approved docs M & T)

[sgt_woulds]

Can anyone point out to me where it states in either approved documents T or M that the toilet seats can't have a lid?

 

 

The only specific mention regarding the seat I can see is height from the floor, (between 480-500mm).

 

However, the only available part M-approved seats I can find come without lids, and our landlord refuses to fit anything else.

 

As this is a commercial - rather than a publicly accessible building - I think we should decide based on a risk assessment that includes a balance of risks.

 

We have a one ambulatory-access female toilet and one wheelchair accessible universal toilet, (the de facto Male toilet).  We do not have any employees in a wheelchair, (or with any mobility issue) and only see visitors in a blue moon.

 

The likelihood of any accident caused by having a lid is extremely low - especially regarding the number of times this facility will be used for disabled access purposes, (in our case next to never).

 

The risk to health from the spread of bacteria and disease is much higher without the toilet bowl being enclosed during a flush. 

 

(There is publicly available evidence to show that flushing with no lid or with the lid up creates an aerosol of water and ‘other things’ which coats every surface in the room – flushing with the lid down reduces the toilet plume by between 30% and 60% )

 

Balance of risk therefore confirms that the health risk from flushing outweighs any difficulty caused by lifting a lid.

 

 

I have suggested fitting a toilet seat with a handle as a compromise.  If in the future, we employ somebody with additional needs, we can create an employee-specific risk assessment. 

 

 

Is there anything in either document or some other standard that I am unaware of to dispute this argument?

[Mike]

I don't recall seeing a part M toilet with a seat. If you can get hold of a copy of BS 8300 (through your library, maybe), that may give some other options.

[sgt_woulds]

Thanks, but BS 8300 is not mandatory.  We only need to comply with building control Part M, (or possibly Part T if the building use changes).

 

Really, I just need to know if there is some section or amendment to Part M that I haven't seen that precludes the lid.  Otherwise, it appears to me, that manufacturers who sell Part M 'approved' toilet seats are talking out of their derrière 🙂

 

[Benpointer]

As a full time wheelchair user this kind of b******s really p****s me off.   

 

I came across the incredibly restrictive stuff in part M4(3) about kitchen design (worktops capable of being raised and lowered, no cupboards under a sink or hob etc.).  This is rank 'ablesplaining' - able-bodied people deciding what disabled people need.  

 

Fortunately, our planning consultant and architect say we can ignore part M4(3) as we are not specifically designing a "Wheelchair User Dwelling" even though its going a be a dwelling occupied by a wheelchair user 🤔

 

On topic IANAE* on building regs obviously but I can't see anything in part M that says you cannot have a WC lid.  I suspect it's an invention by low-lifes who think they can sell a few more shabby cut-price loos by calling them "Part M compliant".

 

Rant over 🙂

 

(* I am. on the other hand, an expert on wheelchair use  and I would always want a lid on a toilet.)

Edited Thursday at 09:22 by Benpointer

[Mike]

1 hour ago, sgt_woulds said:

Thanks, but BS 8300 is not mandatory.  We only need to comply with building control Part M

Indeed, BS 8300 isn't mandatory. And neither are most of the 'solutions' offered in Building Regulations Approved Documents

 

The Approved Documents mostly contain 'deemed to satisfy' provisions, but if you can justify another way of satisfying a 'requirement' to the satisfaction of your BCO, then you use that instead; the Documents say that themselves (see the section "What is an approved document?")

 

If a British Standards offers other solutions, then that is (very) strong evidence that you can provide to your BCO (and boss) to justify what you want to do. As may any other reputable document or guidance.

 

Edited Thursday at 10:37 by Mike

[sgt_woulds]

Too true, but you get where I'm coming from - to the layman, (our Landlord could not be more 'Lay') BS stands for something else!  They only care about what the government has 'suggested' and that BC are familiar with.  

 

@Benpointer always good to get an expert viewpoint. 

 

I look at the fold-down rail to the right-hand side of the toilet and think, 'If a wheelchair user is expected to use that on their own without sustaining a concussion, then a toilet seat lid will be child's play!'

 

Personally, I think the lack of lid is more to do with its use in public facilities - cheaper to buy, easier for cleaners to see if the last dirty scrote has left them a message, quicker to clean, and less likely to be damaged or ripped off by the animals that use these spaces.