Warranty snagging points - are these common?

[Tony K]

Afternoon all.

I have my Building Control completion notice for my SB. I now need the warranty. 

 

A separate firm undertook four visits to site on behalf of the warranty provider. The inspection firm have asked for a few outstanding  odds and sods, including:

 

1. Building Control site inspection notes.

I used the local Council, who were fine, but when I asked for the file notes they told me they are not in the public domain. Leaving aside that I am not the public in this case, I have followed their advice and emailed in asking for a copy. Hopefully this will suffice for the warranty inspection firm. 

 

2. Evidence of a drainage pressure test.

They will not accept the Building Control Inspectors sign off, or a specific email from him confirming that drainage meets his satisfaction. They want evidence of a test specifically. They say:

 

'We also require evidence of 3rd party inspection confirmation i.e. Building Control inspection records or CCTV evidence for the entire drainage within each dwelling. If these are not available, or if you prefer, a drainage test can be carried out on site by an accredited gas safety plumber or similar. This should be an air pressure or water pressure test, and written confirmation that it passed is required from an accredited tester. We can also carry out a flow test on completion if deemed necessary.'

 

When I pressed them on what end result they need, they say:

 

'The end result we are looking for is some sort of certificate or letter to state that the drains have been tested at completion. No particular qualification but the letter needs to be from a company, and we will need their PI insurance details.'

 

3. An Insurance-backed guarantee for my flat roof. 

I have a guarantee from the supplier/installer covering it for 20 years, but they want it backed by insurance, and have suggested a couple of firms. 

 

 

Are these things common? Is there anything here I should beware of?

 

Requirement 1: I hope to get the inspection notes from the BC dept. soon. 

Requirement 2: The BC dept. notes may contain something helpful, but f not, I will pay someone. I have found one local drainage firm who want about £350 to do a pressure test. My plumber will do it for much less, but I am not sure he is 'accredited'. Has anyone experienced this before?

Requirement 3: I will ask the roofing firm if they have insurance to underpin their guarantees, and hope that they do, and that it serves to tick this box. Again, anyone been down this road?

 

Cheers

 

 

[Canski]

Requirement 3. Our warranty provider also requested this. It has taken me a year to get this off the roofer. It is site specific so not a thing that is covered by the roofer. This is in case the roofer goes bust and can’t honour his guarantee. 

[Tony K]

42 minutes ago, Canski said:

Requirement 3. Our warranty provider also requested this. It has taken me a year to get this off the roofer. It is site specific so not a thing that is covered by the roofer. This is in case the roofer goes bust and can’t honour his guarantee. 

 

Yes, I can understand that. My roofer is still in business and tells me that if he had known of the requirement he could have facilitated it at the time, but its been over two years now and his federation might not do it. 

 

This is one of a number of things that would have been helpful to have known in advance. I am not sure how much of the knowledge gap is down to intermittent communication from the warranty firm, and how much is stuff I would have know if I were more experienced. 

[G and J]

Just out of interest, as we are about to take cover, which warranty company are you with?

[Tony K]

15 minutes ago, G and J said:

Just out of interest, as we are about to take cover, which warranty company are you with?

 

When you say 'take cover' I presume you mean you are about to get a warranty rather than you plan to run and hide from what I am about to confirm?!

 

I am with build-zone for the warranty. The inspections and report for them are done by Approved Consultant Services Ltd. 

 

I went with them on auto-pilot following a referral from the SB mortgage firm really. 

Edited February 6 by Tony K

[G and J]

Yes take a warranty, however running and hiding maybe the better option! 

 

Thanks for confirming, our choice is Self Build Zone (build zone under another name?!) or Protek. Latter more expensive up front, but cheaper in long run?......hard to tell

[Tony K]

25 minutes ago, G and J said:

Yes take a warranty, however running and hiding maybe the better option! 

 

Thanks for confirming, our choice is Self Build Zone (build zone under another name?!) or Protek. Latter more expensive up front, but cheaper in long run?......hard to tell

 

Yes, quite possibly the same company or at least under the same umbrella.

 

To be honest it was all such a long time ago that I looked at it, and in the blur of getting finance, planning permission, building regs approval, legal stuff, etc and so on, I don't think I really dug too deep into my options regarding the warranty. I have a nagging feeling that I just took advice from buildstore (who I went through to get the SB mortgage) and didn't question it. 

 

I'm sure it is possible to do much more thorough research than that. Whether there is much point I couldn't say. Others will doubtless know. 

[nod]

No it’s not normal to ask for BC notes 

They should have there own notes 

As far as the drains go 

They will never get a better inspection than when BC inspected them in the trench 

So I’d say NO They should have made this clear when you took the policy out 

It’s highly unlikely that these companies ever pay out and certainly not for a calapsed drain 

 

Regarding your flat roof They never cover these They simply exclude this from your warranty If you ever sell 

You may be asked for an indemnity 

£100-150 

 

Ours excluded our GRP roof and Oak porch Our buyers solicitors didn’t pick up on this 

[G and J]

25 minutes ago, nod said:

Ours

Nod, am I right in recalling that you used protek? Realise that none of them are likely to pay out, but more concerned with "ease of use" along the way and no surprises

[nod]

2 minutes ago, G and J said:

Nod, am I right in recalling that you used protek? Realise that none of them are likely to pay out, but more concerned with "ease of use" along the way and no surprises

Yes we used Protec for our first build As we new we would probably sell 

Final inspection was literally a few minutes Didn’t look round 

Just asked for the Certificates 

Sign off 

Slate grading cert 

Mentioned the flat roof and oak porch 

He did say if we took out an insurance 

He would add them to the Ten year Warranty 

Which seemed bezoar 

[G and J]

Thanks For info

[nod]

16 minutes ago, G and J said:

Thanks For info

👍

[EdHat]

Even if you can get an insurance backed guarantee for the flat roof at this stage it's going to set you back more then the £100-£150 for the indemnity nod has mentioned, so your best bet in the first instance is trying to get them to exclude it.

You mentioned the guarantee is from the supplier/installer. Is that supplier guarantees materials and installer guarantees workmanship or is it a "single point warranty". With the latter the supplier or manufacturer warranties the whole thing, design, materials and workmanship and depending who it is from, in my opinion is superior to an insurance backed guarantee. For one insurance backed is usually max 10 years whereas single point can be up to 25 years. Also, the big names like Bauder, IKO, SIG etc are massive companies that have been around for decades and are likely to be around longer then the firms offering the insurance backed guarantees.

 

 

Regarding number 2, why didn't they do their own inspection if they are that bothered. Surely if they ask for 3rd party inspection of the drains they could ask for 3rd party inspections of everything they didn't inspect themselves.

A simple CCTV survey shouldn't be to onerous but I'd be surprised if your local drainage firm hold PI insurance.

[Tony K]

12 hours ago, EdHat said:

Even if you can get an insurance backed guarantee for the flat roof at this stage it's going to set you back more then the £100-£150 for the indemnity nod has mentioned, so your best bet in the first instance is trying to get them to exclude it.

You mentioned the guarantee is from the supplier/installer. Is that supplier guarantees materials and installer guarantees workmanship or is it a "single point warranty". With the latter the supplier or manufacturer warranties the whole thing, design, materials and workmanship and depending who it is from, in my opinion is superior to an insurance backed guarantee. For one insurance backed is usually max 10 years whereas single point can be up to 25 years. Also, the big names like Bauder, IKO, SIG etc are massive companies that have been around for decades and are likely to be around longer then the firms offering the insurance backed guarantees.

 

 

Regarding number 2, why didn't they do their own inspection if they are that bothered. Surely if they ask for 3rd party inspection of the drains they could ask for 3rd party inspections of everything they didn't inspect themselves.

A simple CCTV survey shouldn't be to onerous but I'd be surprised if your local drainage firm hold PI insurance.

 

We are staying in the SB so I am happy to have flat roof cover excluded from a warranty insofar as I don't need to sell it. I just need the warranty so I can get the final drawdown from the SB mortgage and finish off the landscaping etc. Plus I imagine it will have some implication for standard domestic house insurance cover, which I will take out instead of the far more expensive SB/Building site insurance I have been using. 

 

What I have regarding the roof is a guarantee from the firm who supplied and installed it. The EPDM itself is not their product, they just bought it and fitted it. They have given me the following:

 

Namely the installation of the synthetic rubber EPDM roofing membrane will prevent the ingress of rain or snow for TWENTY YEARS from the date upon the said works were completed subject to the following exclusions:

1. Storm damage in excessive weather conditions such as falling roof tiles, trees. In the event of a storm roof must be checked for damage by xxxx.

2. Damage caused by lightening, fire, hurricanes, high winds or earthquake.

3. Deliberate or accidental damage.

4. Defects in adjoining areas such as defective tiles, coping stones, pointing, porous brick work render, roof windows and any abutments.

5. Deficiencies or movement in the building structure.

6. Damage caused by the leakage of fuels and oil.

7. Lack of maintenance up held to the gutters, outlets and gullies ETC and at least a 2 yearly inspection completed by xxx only at a minimum cost of £ 85.00 + VAT

8. All other products used other than EPDM come with their own guarantee and will not be covered by the 20 year product guarantee.

9. All workmanship is guaranteed for 10 years.

10. The guarantee is only valid when full payment has been received and first inspection completed within a year.

 

The firm seem long-established and the fella who runs it seems pretty good, but I am not treating the guarantee as serious. For one thing, it can be swerved if I don't get that same firm to undertake bi-annual maintenance that I could very much do myself. 

 

Also, I particularly like phrases like 'deliberate or accidental damage'! Isn't that just 'damage'?!

 

Regarding no2, yes, exactly. I have found the warranty inspection firm a bit difficult in that respect. They do the bare minimum, its all very automated, and as a first time self-builder I certainly could not have relied on them for a clear understanding of my obligations. 

 

@nod they have already rolled over regarding the BC officers notes. The BC officer gave me a simple email listing the things he had seen and approved, and that was sufficient for the warranty inspection form it turns out, even though they were asking for the actual notes before. 

 

Final question @nod @EdHat - If I go for an indemnity for the roof, what I am covering myself for/against?

 

Cheers

[nod]

13 hours ago, EdHat said:

Even if you can get an insurance backed guarantee for the flat roof at this stage it's going to set you back more then the £100-£150 for the indemnity nod has mentioned, so your best bet in the first instance is trying to get them to exclude it.

You mentioned the guarantee is from the supplier/installer. Is that supplier guarantees materials and installer guarantees workmanship or is it a "single point warranty". With the latter the supplier or manufacturer warranties the whole thing, design, materials and workmanship and depending who it is from, in my opinion is superior to an insurance backed guarantee. For one insurance backed is usually max 10 years whereas single point can be up to 25 years. Also, the big names like Bauder, IKO, SIG etc are massive companies that have been around for decades and are likely to be around longer then the firms offering the insurance backed guarantees.

 

 

Regarding number 2, why didn't they do their own inspection if they are that bothered. Surely if they ask for 3rd party inspection of the drains they could ask for 3rd party inspections of everything they didn't inspect themselves.

A simple CCTV survey shouldn't be to onerous but I'd be surprised if your local drainage firm hold PI insurance.

We enquired prior to selling 6 months ago 100-150 Legal and general 

Didn’t need it in the end 

[Tony K]

An update (and request for help) on this.

My warranty provider are happy for my plumber to supply confirmation of a drainage pressure test, as he has PL insurance and is gas-safe (what the latter qualification has to do with anything I really don't know). 

The plumber is happy to do it, and provide me with a letter from his company. 

Does anyone have an example of a drainage pressure test letter we could base ours on? 

Thanks

[kandgmitchell]

This is the letter content supplied by our heating/plumbing contractor:

 

To whom it may concern.
I hereby certify that all internal drainage on above project have been subjected to successful air tightness test using Bailey gauge and have been found free flowing. Pressure held above 38 after 5 minutes.

 

In was in the pack of various certificates etc provided to BC and we had no comments back about any of it.

[Tony K]

6 hours ago, kandgmitchell said:

This is the letter content supplied by our heating/plumbing contractor:

 

To whom it may concern.
I hereby certify that all internal drainage on above project have been subjected to successful air tightness test using Bailey gauge and have been found free flowing. Pressure held above 38 after 5 minutes.

 

In was in the pack of various certificates etc provided to BC and we had no comments back about any of it.

 

Perfect, thank you.