Boiler Upgrade Scheme

[IanB]

I have seen a couple of articles but just wanted to check a few things - I'm in the planning stage

1. Government web page says new builds not eligible - self-builds are. I hope to have a single residence built for me to live in so I am assuming that it would be eligible - correct?

2. I prefer to purchase as many things myself under my own name for VAT reclaim. Fairly straightforward to order Vaillant Aerotherm plus and Cylinder from wholesalers with trade discount but from that site it looks like only the MCS installer can do the purchase?. This is of course subject to VAT which they reclaim. 

3. So from above, am I right in assuming the installer quotes on the basis of supply (with VAT) and fit (zero rated) less the £7,500 ? - and does it cover just the heat pump or can you include the cylinder and other ancillaries?. In my case it would be pretty small 5kw maybe 7 with smaller 150l tank so prices are reasonable (before labour!!)

 

Thanks

[sharpener]

33 minutes ago, IanB said:

Fairly straightforward to order Vaillant Aerotherm plus and Cylinder from wholesalers with trade discount but from that site it looks like only the MCS installer can do the purchase?.

 

Only the installer will be able to register it with Vaillant for the extended warranty.

 

34 minutes ago, IanB said:

So from above, am I right in assuming the installer quotes on the basis of supply (with VAT) and fit (zero rated) less the £7,500 ? - and does it cover just the heat pump or can you include the cylinder and other ancillaries?. In my case it would be pretty small 5kw maybe 7 with smaller 150l tank so prices are reasonable (before labour!!)

 

That's what I paid for, no VAT charged on a complete installed system. Installer will be able to claim  back VAT as input tax so no advantage to your supplying free issue (if that is what you are thinking) and it would complicate the warranty.

 

Ancillaries such as buffer tanks, expansion tanks, valves, pumps and cylinders are all included (bc the HP system has to be capable of providing HW) but I didn't have a new cyl anyway.

 

 

Edited October 23 by sharpener

[JohnMo]

1. Yes

2. No you can't do that and claim grant. You have to be merrily ripped of first. Pay many thousands and the grant just vanishes

3. Installed ASHP is vat free anyway, new build or otherwise.

 

If you go under MCS and the grant the cylinder size is defined under a minimum size by MCS rules, can't choose a smaller size.

 

I would price up yourself and then get a grant based quote.

 

Why limit yourself to Vaillant? Buying again I would go Panasonic.

[sharpener]

31 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

If you go under MCS and the grant the cylinder size is defined under a minimum size by MCS rules, can't choose a smaller size.

 

Where does that come from @JohnMo? Is is mandatory under MCS rules or is it just that MCS installers are reluctant to depart from ?BR ?CIBSE guidance about sizing cylinders as 45 l x (# of bedrooms + 1)?

 

In practice I have had it put to me that as a future purchaser might want it up to that standard my low usage cannot be used to justify a smaller cyl.

 

[JohnMo]

On the MCS certified website

 

 

 

Domestic_HW_cyl_selection_guide.pdf

[sharpener]

Thanks.

 

"These recommendations are based on the guidelines in BS 6700"

 

So a recommendation, not baked in to the regs themselves. But might as well be bc we all know how risk averse MCS installers are, and reluctant to depart from the their monopoly trade body's "recommendations".

 

Roll on the competition!

[JamesPa]

@IanB

 

My advice, if

 

a. the MCS recommendations are getting in the way and

b. you have a coherent argument whey they are not appropriate for your house

 

is - shop around. 

 

There are MCS installers out there that will depart, with justified reason, from the MCS guidance/recommendations.  Of course they will still conform to the requirements of MCS, BUS and Building Regulations. 

 

Two years ago, when I embarked on this (still incomplete) journey, finding installers that would step outside the box was like looking for hens teeth.  Now, as I look anew for quotes, it seems that a fair few more have recognised that the MCS recommendations are too restrictive, and are thus prepared to be more flexible whilst still meeting the requirements.  

 

This time around (knowing much more than I knew when I first sought quotes 2 years ago) I stated in my initial brief where I needed the installer to depart from the recommendations.  I was pleasantly surprised that more than one came back saying 'yes, we know that they are too restrictive, we are happy to be flexible on this point).  Slowly the industry is waking up to the real world.

Edited October 23 by JamesPa

[IanB]

Thanks for replies. Yes, this is my general concern. I could go to any wholesaler and buy all the kit needed for under 7k and get a trade discount and claim the vat back, but as you say the Installer will do exactly the same thing and charge accordingly. Yes you get the 7k refund removed from the invoice, so as said I guess you just have to suck it up. I need to read up more but do these mcs rules restrict smaller sizes. As I said I estimate for a small 2 bed chalet bungalow highly insulated would only need 5kw heat pump and for me smallest cylinder of 150l

[sharpener]

1 hour ago, IanB said:

As I said I estimate for a small 2 bed chalet bungalow highly insulated would only need 5kw heat pump and for me smallest cylinder of 150l

 

Sounds entirely reasonable, I don't think a MCS installer would quarrel with that. But if you are having the place built to your spec then for a small straightforward system not much point in getting one involved if you are either going to do the plumbing yourself or have tradesmen on site.

 

There is a middle way which involves using an umbrella MCS scheme, there is just this one who can supply Vaillant, highly recommended on the Vaillant FB group.

 

IIRC there is/was also a scheme whereby you pay Vaillant to commission your system and then they give you the extended warranty.

 

Edited October 24 by sharpener