How complicated is a G99 application?

[Thorfun]

long story short our G99 installation form never got submitted to the DNO and it has now expired. The PV installers who installed our system have said they will do the application for me but I'd like it done quickly and they're kind of dragging their heels. I was wondering if it's something I could easily and quickly do myself? I would then, once approval has been obtained, need to submit the commissioning paperwork. would I be able to do that too or would I need the installers to do it? if they need to do the G99 commissioning submission to the DNO then I might as well stop being impatient and get them to do it all but if it's something I can submit in it's entirety myself and it's not too onerous then maybe I should just do it.

 

thoughts?

[sharpener]

You can certainly do it yourself (I had no choice as the battery system was a self-install) but it is by no means straightforward so if the installers are willing I would leave it all to them, hopefully they deal with yr DNO all the time and know the wrinkles of the process.

 

There are (or were) several different kinds of application possible, some fast-track and some not and the forms vary from one DNO to another so getting the correct advice is not easy.

 

If nevertheless you are in a big hurry I would start with a call to yr DNO helpline and ask what they want rather than try and work it out from the web site.

[MikeSharp01]

I have been doing ours on line with UK power networks. Set up an account and just worked through it. It has drop downs for many things including your inverter - not there makes it tough and then all they need it a few pics of the meter installation and a schematic. Need to get ours in now we are putting the cells up, won't connect it up myself, that's an MCS job but have installed the power meter etc as we had the foresight to put an isolator into the power line after the meter so I can isolate it safely.

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, sharpener said:

You can certainly do it yourself (I had no choice as the battery system was a self-install) but it is by no means straightforward so if the installers are willing I would leave it all to them, hopefully they deal with yr DNO all the time and know the wrinkles of the process.

 

There are (or were) several different kinds of application possible, some fast-track and some not and the forms vary from one DNO to another so getting the correct advice is not easy.

 

If nevertheless you are in a big hurry I would start with a call to yr DNO helpline and ask what they want rather than try and work it out from the web site.

 

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I have been doing ours on line with UK power networks. Set up an account and just worked through it. It has drop downs for many things including your inverter - not there makes it tough and then all they need it a few pics of the meter installation and a schematic. Need to get ours in now we are putting the cells up, won't connect it up myself, that's an MCS job but have installed the power meter etc as we had the foresight to put an isolator into the power line after the meter so I can isolate it safely.

Well that’s two contrasting opinions there then! 😂

 

we are UKPN here and I was thinking of asking if the original G99 can be used with a minor adjustment as the battery system is a little different. 
 

but I’m now thinking that I still have so much to do to get BCO sign off that I think I’ll leave it up to the installer. 
 

it’s hard to let go though sometimes!!

[sharpener]

I wondered if there was any remaining value in the original paperwork, but between my installing the battery system and applying for a heat pump WPD had been taken over by NG and the process seems to have changed quite a bit.

 

A phone call might swiftly elicit whether it can be re-submitted or you are better off starting again. Or you might be put on hold for 40 mins...

[Dillsue]

My experience with SPEN is its straight forward. Everything on the G99 application is straight forward. The single line drawing of the house electrics may take a bit more research to compile but there's plenty of examples on the Web. Commissioning doc is straight forward too

[Dillsue]

14 hours ago, Thorfun said:

long story short our G99 installation form never got submitted to the DNO and it has now expired. The PV installers who installed our system have said they will do the application for me but I'd like it done quickly and they're kind of dragging their heels.

As professional installers they should know they cant connect more than 3.68kw of potential export without a G99 approval. If you've not paid them, dont! Wait until you have the approval in place before paying them.

 

[Thorfun]

19 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

As professional installers they should know they cant connect more than 3.68kw of potential export without a G99 approval. If you've not paid them, dont! Wait until you have the approval in place before paying them.

 

ahhh.....i didn't include all the details so may have painted an incorrect picture. as i said it was a long story cut short! in as much of a summary as i can do, our M&E consultants (Enhabit) applied for and obtained G99 approval for our array and a Tesla Powerwall. they then got taken over by Green Building Store (now 21°) who decided that they weren't going to do Solar/batteries/ASHP in the south of England anymore and so left me in the lurch halfway through my solar install. they refunded what i'd paid for the Solar PV install, Powerwall deposit (which was ditched for a LuxPower system in the end) and ASHP install and left me on my own to find someone to finish those jobs. The installers finished my solar PV but as they were just sub-contractors it wasn't their responsibility to submit the G99 commissioning docs which was Enhabit's job but they had been taken over and no-one at GBS gave a shit. so it never got done.

 

not the installers fault but just another bag of crap i was lumbered with due to the acquisition of Enhabit.

 

now after 14 months of Octopus making numerous cock-ups on my SEG application they have now turned around and said UKPN don't have our G99 commissioning paperwork so i've only just found out that it was never submitted. The solar was commissioned in Sept 2022.

 

the whole process is a very long story and is a shit show. i'm now just trying my best to get everything in place so i can get my export MPAN and start getting money for my exported solar generation. Octopus have said they'd compensate me for their poor customer service and performance and lost income on a process that should take 8 weeks but we're now in to our 15 month of waiting. only time will tell if that ever happens though.

[Dillsue]

Ah, so you've got a G99 approval and just need to submit the commissioning doc???

 

No idea what your DNO is like but I filled in and submitted the commissioning doc together with the single line diagram. Was then asked to sign a contract with the specific inverter serial numbers stated within the contract.

 

If you've changed equipment then in principle the original G99 should still be valid so long as you don't go above the approved export limit AND the new kit meets with the current G99 standards.

[Thorfun]

35 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Ah, so you've got a G99 approval and just need to submit the commissioning doc???

 

No idea what your DNO is like but I filled in and submitted the commissioning doc together with the single line diagram. Was then asked to sign a contract with the specific inverter serial numbers stated within the contract.

 

If you've changed equipment then in principle the original G99 should still be valid so long as you don't go above the approved export limit AND the new kit meets with the current G99 standards.

the G99 approval says that the commissioning doc needs to be submitted by a certain date which is long gone and so i believe a new approval doc is required. but i think i'll try and give them a call to confirm.

[Dillsue]

4 hours ago, Thorfun said:

the G99 approval says that the commissioning doc needs to be submitted by a certain date which is long gone and so i believe a new approval doc is required. but i think i'll try and give them a call to confirm.

I'd just send the commissioning  doc in with a covering letter explaining the history. Unless there's been masses of other generation installed in your area it would be unreasonable for them to renege on the approval

[Thorfun]

25 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

I'd just send the commissioning  doc in with a covering letter explaining the history. Unless there's been masses of other generation installed in your area it would be unreasonable for them to renege on the approval

it's worth a shot i guess! i'll give them a call tomorrow morning and see what they say.

[Dillsue]

Personally, I'd write.  It's way too easy for them to tell you to reapply over the phone!!

[Thorfun]

58 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

Personally, I'd write.  It's way too easy for them to tell you to reapply over the phone!!

I prefer the phone.....it's more immediate and I'm not waiting for my letter to get to the top of the pile. 😉 

 

anyway, had a really good chat with a very helpful person at UKPN today and he is looking in to seeing if we can simply use the original application and acceptance letter and will get back to me. he said if we can't then we can raise a new G99 application form (I have the original one) and that will be sent to the projects team as I'm over the 5kW generation limit.

 

we also spoke about if that happens if I can use their new Smart Connect portal which is what I assume @MikeSharp01 is using to submit the new form which is another possibility if it comes to it. now all I need is to get the commissioning documents from the installers so I have them in either case.

 

fingers crossed they just accept the initial application though!

[Thorfun]

update.....UKPN wouldn't accept the original application and so i went ahead and created a new application using their Smart Connect portal. The system consists of 28 x 375kW panels (10.5kWp) with a 10kW Solaredge inverter and a LuxPower LXP3600ACS AC coupled battery inverter.

 

i had a response from them but i'm not sure i understand it and my sparky is currently unavailable!

 

Quote

Good Morning
I am in receipt of the above mentioned project and wanted to inform you of your options. Having carried out the voltage rise calculations for the connection, a maximum of 10.25kVA is possible without any reinforcement works.
You can either install 10.25kVA as per the above, or you can install the 13.6kVA you initially requested and limit the export amount to 10.25kVA via an export limiting scheme, the specification of which, I would need to see before sending you your approval
Can you please confirm which option you wish to pursue, and in doing so, please return to me a revised A1 form clearly stating the details of the revised option detailed above? If you have any other queries, please do not hesitate to contact me

 

isn't the export already limited to 10kVA due to the solaredge inverter? i didn't think batteries exported to the grid.

 

if i do need an export limiting scheme is anyone able to give me a link to what i need to get to do it please?

[sharpener]

3 hours ago, Thorfun said:

isn't the export already limited to 10kVA due to the solaredge inverter? i didn't think batteries exported to the grid.

If either the Lux battery inverter cannot export at all or it can  be set and locked to a zero export setting you need to reply with details of this and e.g. screen shots of the relevant settings, maybe this needs to be on a separate G100 Export Limit application, look up G100 on the UKPN web site.

 

Then if you make a new application to export up to 10.25 kW they should grant it. This website is unfortunately not very helpful but the camelot forum has other Lux users I think, try there.

 

If the Lux can't be restricted to no export then you are looking at third party equipment which can get expensive, or downrating your PV to the difference i.e. 6.65 kW.

[Thorfun]

thanks. I have been doing some research today and came across this Solaredge Energy meter https://www.solaredge.com/en/products/metering-and-sensors/energy-meter-with-modbus-connection which talks to the inverter but I don't see how it actually limits the export or knows what the export limit is!

[Thorfun]

oh right! found this https://knowledge-center.solaredge.com/sites/kc/files/feed-in_limitation_application_note.pdf.

 

think I get it now. the Solaredge Energy meter sends the import/export data to the inverter and within the actual inverter itself you set the export limit and so if export exceeds that limit then the inverter reduces the output from the inverter to ensure it remains under the export limit.

 

seems pretty straight forward now I've done some research!

[Dillsue]

4 hours ago, Thorfun said:

oh right! found this https://knowledge-center.solaredge.com/sites/kc/files/feed-in_limitation_application_note.pdf.

 

think I get it now. the Solaredge Energy meter sends the import/export data to the inverter and within the actual inverter itself you set the export limit and so if export exceeds that limit then the inverter reduces the output from the inverter to ensure it remains under the export limit.

 

seems pretty straight forward now I've done some research!

That's it exactly. Check the inverter carries a G100 approval which I think it should. Hook up the energy meter and CT clamp to your supply cable and configure the inverter to your export limit.

 

Technically, to be G100 compliant, the export limitation settings should be password protected by your installer to stop you as the user tinkering!!

[sharpener]

Depends on the topology. An external meter is definitely required if there are either loads or sources between the incoming grid and the AC connections to the inverter. If not perhaps its internal CT is sufficient (as in my Victron MultiPlus) if it has the necessary settings, the manual should tell you.

 

The SolarEdge application note is definitely US in its flavour. Other meters to look at are the Carlo Gavazzi ET112 and the Eastron widely available in the UK with RS485 and maybe cheaper. Protocols vary, not always compatible with all inverters.

[Thorfun]

8 hours ago, sharpener said:

The SolarEdge application note is definitely US in its flavour. Other meters to look at are the Carlo Gavazzi ET112 and the Eastron widely available in the UK with RS485 and maybe cheaper. Protocols vary, not always compatible with all inverters.

yeah, I think I'd rather stick with Solaredge for complete compatibility!

[Thorfun]

9 hours ago, Dillsue said:

That's it exactly. Check the inverter carries a G100 approval which I think it should. Hook up the energy meter and CT clamp to your supply cable and configure the inverter to your export limit.

 

Technically, to be G100 compliant, the export limitation settings should be password protected by your installer to stop you as the user tinkering!!

the inverter is password protected and I am the installer. my inverter broke and Solaredge sent me a new one which I replaced and configured on my own. so I think that officially makes me a solar pv installer. at least it's now on my CV. 🤣

[Dillsue]

22 hours ago, Thorfun said:

yeah, I think I'd rather stick with Solaredge for complete compatibility!

And support! Start mixing and matching and you might struggle with help from SE

[Thorfun]

ok. update on this. my application was approved! now I need to supply commissioning documentation. they've asked for this:

 

 

I'm ok with the 'As built Single line diagram/circuit diagram' as I already have this diagram which I think is what they're after (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

 

 

Site layout and site location plans are fine as I can send the architects site plans with the head marked on them.

 

my query is around does the above diagram show all the required protection settings that are needed for a G99 commissioning docs? I'm really hoping that I can simply send the above image and the site layout and location plans and be done with it! but I don't want to send in incorrect plans.

 

can anyone who's been through this please assist with what's required here or if the above is all that's needed?

[MikeSharp01]

Think the import / export meter should be after the CU so it captures all the loads on the CU not just the inverter / battery combination on the edge of the properties consumption / export.