Building Control Electrical Work Certification (Wales)

[tuftythesquirrel]

Hello,

 

I am in Wales and am attempting to find out from my Building Control officer what paperwork I need to satisfy him regarding the electrical work. He has said I need a BS 7671 EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate). 

 

I’ve been an electrical engineer for decades so I want to carry out the electrical work myself. However, even though I have a degree in electrical engineering and worked in the automation industry for that period, I do not have an 18th Edition Wiring Regulations (BS7671:2022) qualification.

 

My electrician says he can’t provide an EIC, since he won’t be carrying out the work himself. BS 7671 says “the person signing the EIC is responsible for the "Design, Construction. Inspection and Testing". That’s seems quite reasonable.

 

The current approved document P, as I understand it, seems to cater for installers who are not qualified e.g. contractors or DIYers (See 1.24 below). It then specifically says not to use the BS 7671 EIC for the certification (See 1.27 and 1.28 below). It doesn’t say what you need to provide and hands it over to BC, who in my case ask for a document (EIC) that shouldn’t be used!

 

c. Where installers are not qualified to complete BS 7671 completion certificates
1.24
Where such installers (who may be contractors or DIYers) carry out notifiable electrical work, the building control body must be notified before the work starts. Where the work is necessary because of an emergency the building control body should be notified as soon as possible. The building control body then becomes responsible for making sure that the work is safe and complies with all relevant requirements in the Building Regulations.

Certification of notifiable work....
c. Where installers are not qualified to complete BS 7671 completion certificates....
1.27
A building control body will not issue a BS 7671 installation certificate (as these can be issued only by those carrying out the work), but only a Building Regulations completion certificate (the local authority) or a final certificate (an approved inspector).

Third party certification
1.28
Unregistered installers should not themselves arrange for a third party to carry out final inspection and testing. The third party – not having supervised the work from the outset – would not be in a position to verify that the installation work complied fully with BS 7671:2001 requirements. An electrical installation certificate can be issued only by the installer responsible for the installation work.

 

So my question is does anyone else have experience of what I need to do (in Wales would be nice), since what my BCO is asking for doesn’t seem correct.

 

Thanks.
 

Edited July 20, 2023 by tuftythesquirrel

[TonyT]

In Fife in Scotland all you need to do is photocopy your SJIB card( it proves you are a qualified electrician) and submit it with the appropriate installation certificate.

 

all they want is someone else to blame..

[tuftythesquirrel]

Sorry but as I said in the thread, I am not a craftsman/tradesman. I was responsible for the design of systems in terms of the hardware and software (of the automation) but the installation and testing was another individuals responsibility. So I don't have any form of "card".

[Big Jimbo]

I have done the following in the past, but i'm not saying it is ok. I am qualified 16th edition, and part p. Both completed in 2007. I have never used them on any sort of commercial basis. What i wanted, and the reason that i sat the exams etc, is that i wanted to be able to second fix, on the kitchens, that i was supplying and installing at the time. I basically wanted to give the sparky confidence that i knew what i was doing.

Move on to doing a full refurb on a property for my daughter. Before any electrical work was done, i spoke face to face with the LA building inspector. I explained that i had Part P, and various other Domestic electrical installation certificates, But that i was not a trade member of any of the trade association and could not issue a cert. He was happy for me to do the work, and simply get an anual electricty safety cert once i finished from a sparky. Prob the sort of cert that a landlord might have to get.

He said that the LA had instances of work being completed where people were unable to get a cert for lots of reasons, such as company gone bust, self trader died etc. As he said nobody could be expected to rip the house apart and have the work done again.

I have done this 3 times with LA's since. Have a word with your building control, and your sparky.

[tuftythesquirrel]

Thanks @Big Jimbo I think that helps me - well keeps my moral up at least.

I think I will propose that to my BCO and use your reasoning. I hadn't realised there might be instances where you couldn't get an EIC due to the circumstances you mention. 

The building regulations sort of steer you away from what is now called an EICR (below), but I think it is the only sensible alternative and I have no hidden cables at the moment.

 

1.29 A third party could only sign a BS 7671:2001 Periodic Inspection Report or similar. The Report would indicate that electrical safety tests had been carried out on the installation which met BS 7671:2001 criteria, but it could not verify that the installation complied fully with BS 7671:2001 requirements – for example with regard to routing of hidden cables

[tuftythesquirrel]

Hi @Big Jimbo,

 

I've had a response from the BCO, who seems to have changed his story, in that he now agrees with me that the BS 7671 EIC form can't be used. He is now saying that the building control (or council) maintenance team can be used to do this. There is a special Development Category (D71) for "electrical work - carried out by others" for which there is a fixed charge of £650 (inc. VAT).

 

He said there are inspections at the first and second fix stages, which I'm going to try to change and ask them to review my electrical schematics before I start the install, rather than them pick things up after they have been installed.

 

 

I've also asked him what type of documentation they produce, since the Part P approved document says that neither the BS 7671 EIC and EICR are suitable.

 

I'll see what happens.

 

[openthegate]

Hi Tuftythesquirrel in Narberth

 

How did you eventually get on with the BCO.

Did you do the work yourself and then have the BCO (or a sparky on their behalf) inspect the work after first fix/second fix.

 

Cheers Chris (just down the M4 in Bridgend)