Pre-planning enquiry - Highways response

[Deejay]

Sorry this is lengthy but only requires a quick skim over to get the gist.  Thank you for any input.

 

I am just seeking opinions please. We started pre-planning enquiry process early Dec 20 for demolition of existing dwelling and construction of replacement dwelling. Letter received Feb 2021 from Planning/Conservation Officer, containing Highways response, planning guidelines, and advice on design. This cost around £400.

My question is around Highways response.

History of site: We purchased dwelling with area of land that had a prefabricated workshop and two stone barns on it in 2010. In conservation area but certainly not an area of outstanding beauty! Narrow entrance to site with 2 old cottages one side and single storey stone building on the other side. The access road entrance does widen out to some extent after the single storey building and this is suitable for passing if required.

One of the original stone barns on the site had been used as a saddlery shop prior to our purchase of the site and I believe this is the reason we managed to obtain planning permission for the demolition of the outbuildings and the erection of two dwellings as this would result in a reduction of traffic onto the site.

 

In the Planning Officer’s letter in February 2021 the Highways Engineer has said the access road needs to be widened to 5 metres.

Quote: “ The existing vehicular access and shared drive should be increased in width to 5 metres.”

 

In 2010 the Planning Officer wrote in an initial enquiry for the two proposed dwellings which received planning permission in 2011

 

Quote “ Access width

In terms of the proposed access width, as a private shared road (ie not serving more than 5 dwellings) the Council would expect a minimum of 4.5 metres where it is physically possible to achieve this width. Where it is not possible to widen the existing access point due to the presence of existing structures/ buildings I would consider that it would be unreasonable for the Council to insist that this be widened, bearing in mind that the traffic associated with the present saddlery business utilises this point of entry/exit onto M... Road”.

 

NB M... Road is a B rated road

 

The Planning Officer has basically said they have fulfilled their pre-application enquiry requirements and we should put in a formal application and basically see what happens, but it seems foolhardy to spend thousands on professional drawings and specialist reports if a refusal is already on the cards because of the access.

 

I have drafted a letter of response to the Planning Officer asking him to pass the information re the access given to us in 2010 to the Highways Engineer to reconsider his comment. I have said I am happy to speak to the Highways Engineer myself or meet him on site.

My questions are (before I send the letter):

1 Do you think that having granted permission for two additional houses in 2011 they can maintain the access is now not wide enough for our proposed replacement house.

2 Also is it unwise to stir things at this point – are we better to just put in the formal application and go with the flow.

 

We shall use the same experienced architectural technician to submit our formal planning application – he gets on well with the Planning Department and is a nice guy, but doesn’t really offer advice. I’m just not sure whether pushing for a more definite response from the Highways Department at this point is a good idea, even though I think we are entitled to it. 

Any thoughts please.  

 

[Bramco]

33 minutes ago, Deejay said:

1 Do you think that having granted permission for two additional houses in 2011 they can maintain the access is now not wide enough for our proposed replacement house.

 

Yes if things have changed - planning decisions are made on the basis of the current planning legislation, not on what it has been.

 

I'd be inclined to put in an outline application with all matters reserved except access, so very little architectural technician time needed except for the location plan which would show the access. And be prepared to go to appeal, so research decisions made in the area where the access was less than 5m as well as successful appeals and also check when if at all highways legislation has changed.

 

Simon

[Temp]

5 hours ago, Deejay said:

In the Planning Officer’s letter in February 2021 the Highways Engineer has said the access road needs to be widened to 5 metres.

Quote: “ The existing vehicular access and shared drive should be increased in width to 5 metres.”

 

I note he said "should" not "must". Did he write a long speel to justify his point of view?

 

If not then I would just submit the application and in that refer to the 2010 decision on the width. 

 

5 hours ago, Deejay said:

One of the original stone barns on the site had been used as a saddlery shop

 

I would also point out that converting the barn from a shop to a dwelling will reduce the amount of traffic using the entrance compared to 2010 levels - if thats true.

 

Sometimes the fire brigade will also have a view. Is your plot further from the narrow entrance?

 

[Deejay]

We are in a Conservation Area and near a Grade 2 Listed CofE Church so unfortunately only a full application acceptable, which requires Design and Access Statement, Heritage Statement etc etc and associated costs.  This is why I am considering trying to sort it out before we submit a formal application but very unsure what to do.

The response from the Highways Engineer was embodied in the letter from the Planning Officer dealing with our pre planning application.  He gave no explanation at all regarding his comment about the width of the access road.   I have looked on line to see if there have been any changes in legislation and can't find anything.

At the time of our first application in 2011 to construct two dwellings to replace the Saddlery shop and workshop, we felt that the reduction in traffic to the Saddlery shop was probably what persuaded the Planning Department to relax the entrance requirements.  We don't have that to reason with now but I can't see how replacing a 1970's dwelling with a new house which will be built in the same materials and design as the two other houses on site which were completed in 2016, could trigger a need to widen the access road.  The access road is approx 85 metres long and has a reversing area for emergency vehicles - as was required in original application in 2011.  The access road was constructed from scratch to a commercial standard.  

I'd really like to know where we stand with the access road width requirements even if only to know it is not set in stone and will be considered within a formal application, but can't decide what to do.

Thank you for your comments.

 

[Bramco]

9 hours ago, Deejay said:

We are in a Conservation Area and near a Grade 2 Listed CofE Church so unfortunately only a full application acceptable, which requires Design and Access Statement, Heritage Statement etc etc and associated costs.

 

Interesting - I thought you could still do outline even in these circumstances. If you could do outline with access, then you'd be able to force the decision on access without having to do the rest.

 

Simon

[Deejay]

Has to be detailed planning application in a Conservation Area.  Anyway I decided to go  back to the Planning Officer about the Highway Engineer's response as this is holding up our submission of a formal planning application.  I'll report on what he has to say when he eventually responds, no doubt after several reminders.  

Thanks again.

[Deejay]

I said I would update on what happened regarding the access road. It seemed to get any further response from the Planning Officer dealing with the pre-planning application was to do another pre-app and pay a further £360 fee.  I did not want to start incurring costs for plans etc without clarity on the width of the road so phoned the Architectural Technician to ask whether I should phone Highways myself.  Although he is too busy to take on my plans he kindly phoned the chap in Highways and asked him to ring me today (it is impossible to get through to anyone at the Local Authority - they won't give out phone numbers or email addresses).  Anyway the Highways Engineer phoned today and although he did not deal with our pre-app enquiry, he confirmed it was a standard reply and that if we are only replacing a dwelling then the existing access is OK.  I shall make a note of this conversation for future reference but at least we can now consider getting formal plans done.  My next query is re the Heritage Statement which I shall post separately.