Rear extension - who do I need to serve party wall notice to?

[taylormsj]

Hello,

 

We are planning a 4m rear extension. We've had the plans drawn and now we need to consider if we need to serve any party wall notices.

 

I have done some research and spoken to a surveyor who gave me some advice over the phone.

 

I've attached a drawing of our plot below. Our house is number 1 and the proposed extension is indicated by the box with diagonal lines out the back. From my understanding we will need to -

 

Neighbour 2 - Serve notice for excavation and line of junction. The extension wall will run alongside their extension wall and then their fence (potentially removing part of their fence)

Neighbour 3 - Serve notice for excavation and line of junction as their garage is adjoined to ours and the extension wall will run along the end of their garden boundary

Neighbour 4 - Serve notice for line of junction as the extension wall will run along the end of their garden boundary 

 

We'd be really grateful for any insights or advice anyone can give.

[joe90]

Hi @taylormsj and welcome, what’s the bit of building in no 3 garden that appears attached to your house?

[taylormsj]

Thanks @joe90

 

This is a garage which is attached to our garage.

[Temp]

Ok so its obvious you will be digging within 3m of buildings on plot 2 and 3. However there are other issues..

 

1) How deep will your foundations go? If they will not be deeper than the neighbours buildings you may not need a PWA with plot 1. 

 

2) Is the wall of the extension on plot 2 astride the boundary or did they build up to the boundary? If its on their side its not a party wall and I don't believe you have a right to "tie-in" or "build -off" their wall without consent regardless of the PWA. If its astride the boundary then its will be a party wall and you can build off it subject to a PWA.

 

However you said..

 

4 hours ago, taylormsj said:

Neighbour 2 - Serve notice for excavation and line of junction. The extension wall will run alongside their extension wall and then their fence (potentially removing part of their fence)

 

If its their fence its probably on their land so you cannot just remove it and build where the fence is without their consent which they are not obliged to give. Again all you can do is build up to the boundary. If their gutters overhang you can ask them to be removed unless a previous owner gave consent. However I would think carefully about that as it could cause more problems.

 

It may seem unfair but for practical reasons you may have to build your extension a foot on your side where it abuts the extension on plot 2.   

 

3) Will your extension be within 3m of a building on plot 4?

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Temp

[taylormsj]

19 minutes ago, Temp said:

1) How deep will your foundations go? If they will not be deeper than the neighbours buildings you may not need a PWA with plot 1. 

 

1000mm has been indicated at the moment and we're not sure how deep the neighbours' are. Digging a test to find out is an option. We're on good terms with the neighboards, is there any harm in serving a notice if it's not needed (assuming they wouldn't dispute the notice)

 

19 minutes ago, Temp said:

2) Is the wall of the extension on plot 2 astride the boundary or did they build up to the boundary? If its on their side its not a party wall and I don't believe you have a right to "tie-in" or "build -off" their wall without consent regardless of the PWA. If its astride the boundary then its will be a party wall and you can build off it subject to a PWA.

 

The existing extension on plot 2 has been built up to the boundary, pretty much on the center line of the 2 houses. So it sounds like this is a party wall. When you mention tying in, do you mean building the wall next to their and using brick ties?

 

19 minutes ago, Temp said:

If its their fence its probably on their land so you cannot just remove it and build where the fence is without their consent which they are not obliged to give. Again all you can do is build up to the boundary. If their gutters overhang you can ask them to be removed unless a previous owner gave consent. However I would think carefully about that as it could cause more problems.

 

It may seem unfair but for practical reasons you may have to build your extension a foot on your side where it abuts the extension on plot 2.   

 

When I mentioned the fence, I just imagined that it we went up to the boundary line it might look better for the fence to start at the end of the extension wall, rather than the neighbour have a fence up against a brick wall in their garden. I suppose this is something to discuss an agree with them, as long as we stick to the boundary line.

 

When you mention practical reasons to build a foot away - do you mean practical in the sense of building, or less hassle with the neighbours and PWA?

 

19 minutes ago, Temp said:

3) Will your extension be within 3m of a building on plot 4?

 

Good point. I never noticed a building in their garden but I can see an outline on the drawing. We're not moved into the property yet, but I will check next time we are there. If it is a building, I suppose we would need to server a PWA notice for excavation (if foundations are going deeper)?

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond

Edited October 1, 2020 by taylormsj
To answer 3rd point

[joe90]

30 minutes ago, taylormsj said:

The existing extension on plot 2 has been built up to the boundary, pretty much on the center line of the 2 houses

just to clarify, is the extension on plot 2 up to the boundary or astride it? And is there any guttering/facia boards on it?

Edited October 1, 2020 by joe90

[taylormsj]

6 minutes ago, joe90 said:

just to clarify, is the extension on plot 2 up to the boundary or astride it? And is there any guttering/facia boards on it?

 

The wall sits pretty much bang on the boundary line. There is guttering.

The current conservatory (to be removed in favour of new extension) is using the extension wall as it's own.

[Temp]

 

22 minutes ago, taylormsj said:

1000mm has been indicated at the moment and we're not sure how deep the neighbours' are. Digging a test to find out is an option. We're on good terms with the neighboards, is there any harm in serving a notice if it's not needed (assuming they wouldn't dispute the notice)

 

 

Normally they will be same depth as yours if your house is a semi.

 

Its best to avoid having to serve a PWA notice if you can. At its simplest the process involves you giving them a copy of your plans and getting them to sign a letter saying they are happy for you to go ahead. I think templates are available in "The guide to the Party Wall Act" online. At its worse they can object or refuse to sign. In which case if they wanted to be awkward you could end up paying for THREE party wall surveyors. One for you, one for them and one to settle disagreements. 

 

36 minutes ago, taylormsj said:

When I mentioned the fence, I just imagined that it we went up to the boundary line it might look better for the fence to start at the end of the extension wall, rather than the neighbour have a fence up against a brick wall in their garden. I suppose this is something to discuss an agree with them, as long as we stick to the boundary line.

 

Yes thats fine as long as your verge/eaves/ gutters don't overhang the boundary. 

 

3 minutes ago, taylormsj said:

 

The wall sits pretty much bang on the boundary line. There is guttering.

The current conservatory (to be removed in favour of new extension) is using the extension wall as it's own.

 

I think you need to go visit and measure very carefully to see if the boundary is their wall or the edge of the gutters.  Either way the best option will be not to connect your extension to theirs. Just build a cavity wall on your side and leave space for your own gutters if necessary.

 

[taylormsj]

Thanks @Temp that's really helpful.

 

So we only need to serve notice for excavation if the foundations are to be deeper.

 

Do we need to serve notice of line of junction?

[joe90]

I agree with @Temp. They  don’t appear to have guttering you’re side but a downpipe and facia. Best to go and have a friendly chat first off to gauge their reaction and while your there measure up accurately .

[Temp]

19 minutes ago, taylormsj said:

Thanks @Temp that's really helpful.

 

So we only need to serve notice for excavation if the foundations are to be deeper.

 

..than theirs. Correct.  In some cases you can go deeper than theirs but not within 3m. 

 

Do we need to serve notice of line of junction?

 

No thats only needed if your new wall will be astride the boundary.

 

[taylormsj]

Thanks @Temp @joe90

 

So to summarize (with the help of the drawing below - red is neighbour's existing extension, green is proposed new extension)

 

I only need to serve notice of excavation to neighbours 2 and 3 if the foundations are to be deeper than theirs.

I don't need to serve notice on the line of junction to any neighbours

 

If we wanted to build the wall on the line of the fence, we would have to serve notice on the line of junction?

 

 

[Temp]

I believe that's all correct. 

 

Only other issue might be whatever building is on plot 4 if that's within 3m.