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Act VII - Internal Examination


AliMcLeod

3294 views

We were making good progress with the architect; we had agreed on the new external look and received an updated internal floorplan, which was a big improvement over the layout that came with the plot.

 

We received the first draft from the architect on 7th July 2016, and agreed on the drawings to submit to Planning on 18th August.

 

During those 5-6 weeks, my wife and I sat with the plans, "walking" through the house, working out how we’d use each space, and going back to the architects with suggested changes, questions and tweaks.  Looking back through my records, we had 7 revisions of the drawings, though at one of those was solely a request for the addition of dimensions to the drawings.

 

The main changes we made during this process were:

 

Kitchen

 

The original plans had bi-fold doors, but I’ve heard bad things about their long-term air-tightness, particularly in areas where the wind can gust to fairly significant levels, so we replaced this opening with sliding doors. We discussed a number of options here: 2 doors or 3, multi-track or single track, all sliding, or some fixed panes, but ended up with a single fixed glass pane and a single slider, with the overall width aligning with the window in the bedroom above for external aesthetics.

 

Living Room

 

As with the Kitchen, we changed the bi-fold doors to sliding doors. The wall of glass is south facing over the River Forth and will be battered by storms for parts of the year – there was no way I’d have subjected bi-fold doors to that sort of weather.

 

Living Level Bedroom

 

This was the major change we made to the plans. My wife has a joint condition that could cause mobility issues in future years. We didn’t know this when we bought the plot with a fairly steep slope and designed a 3 storey house with a lot of stairs and with our master bedroom suite on the top floor…

 

In partial mitigation of this, we decided to combine the two smaller bedrooms on this floor into a second master bedroom suite. This would give us the option, should the need ever arise, to relocate ourselves to this level.

 

At this point, we also briefly discussed whether we could introduce a lift into the design somewhere, but the cost put us off somewhat. Looking back, I now wonder if we should have at ensured we could accommodate that in future, although it is not necessarily too late to do that.

 

Entrance Hall


I’ve not mentioned this so far, but one of the features we did like the original plot plans was a glass floor in the entrance hall, to allow light to flood into the basement. That had disappeared from the plans, so we added that back in.  With us combining the two bedrooms, we also manged to address the issue we had of limited storage just inside the front door and added new cupboards there.

 

Here’s the floor plan that was submitted to planning. We also extended the terrace at the front of the house, to allow us to set up a table and chairs to enjoy the view. This seemingly small change would cause us all sorts of problems in future.        

 

first.PNG.fd9c44755916843bcba7ac8dfdb0d0e2.PNG

 

Master Bedroom Suite

 

We didn’t think the location of the bed in the previous design made the best use of the views over the River Forth, so we moved the bed into the middle of the room, sitting in front of a false wall (probably to be around shoulder height). This provided us with more storage (we envisage a shoe store on the back side of this wall) and also a dressing area of sorts behind that false wall. This change meant we had to change the windows, to accommodate the new location of the built-in wardrobes.

 

Upper Hall

 

I asked the architect to make the double height area above the entrance door a bit deeper, so we moved the door to the Family Room to the north a bit and got rid of the store cupboard at the top of the stairs.

 

Family Bathroom


We added a rooflight into the family bathroom, since it had no natural light.

 

Here’s what the upper floor plan looked like

 

second.PNG.c78cd0151387d43167c2eb62413060af.PNG


The basement area remained largely unchanged:

 

ground.PNG.0303d659426bef771975a0e1994b0a5d.PNG

 

The externals changed a bit to accommodate the new internal layouts:

 

elevations.PNG.60bf68e986df37f7ff367a5d21d4b80f.PNG

 

And a sectional view:

 

section.PNG.df2746fafa0133ce25e4a0ab4043dfdc.PNG

 

It was now in the hands of the Planning Officer.

 

Next, I'll share a little bit more on the various other options we discussed during the design process, including the size/position of that north facing window at the stairs.

 

 

6 Comments


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Addressing your Planning Condition comments from a previous post.

 

>E/W elevations - we've houses either side (one existing, one in planning) and we have a Planning Condition relating to that

>"No windows or openings shall be formed in the east or west elevations of the dwelling hereby approved"

 

That would make me slightly annoyed partly because they already had a granted PP which violates it, and partly because I reckon it is unlawful. Talking about the pipeline side, you have a clearance of at least 7m at 90 degrees.

 

The purpose of PCs is to make a dev acceptable in Planning Terms, and to safeguard the amenity of neighbours. Here there are multiple ways you could safeguard the amenity of neighbours without banning openings ... eg for ground floor a condition to install a 2m fence, or to make sure that windows can only look straight out via obscure glazing or deep narrow window bars (think fins on office buildings). No need at all for it to be so broad.

 

Even Fife Council's own fugging blessed Guidance Document has tables and diagrams demonstrating acceptable window arrangements in exactly your situation without any need for a fence or obstruction.

http://publications.fifedirect.org.uk/c64_Minimumdistancesbetweenwindowopenings.pdf

 

And the PP is granted so you know exactly where you have to be in relation to the windows on the other house. And if they are obscured there is no in-looking so perhaps you don't need to worry anyway (maybe overlooking of garden excepted if they are able to use it).

 

Perhaps we could have a thread about that condition in the light of the requirements. I think I am about right, but would value critique of my view.

 

>We also had to change the the Dining Room window to a high height narrow window - it was either that or obscure glass.

Similar considerations, but closer and with the other property built.

 

That is now a sunk cost, however, and I think you can only shift it via a Full PP or an Appeal against the condition within 12 weeks of receiving PP. And perhaps you are willing to tolerate it.

Edited by Ferdinand
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Non Material Amendments.

 

Briefly, it might be worth looking at what elements of the original you wish to keep options to do, and it may be that by asking for an NMA before the original PP expires it would be more difficult in practice for them to refuse. That means in the next few days.

 

You will be familiar with the Fife NMA Guidance of course, which seems to give quite a lot of leeway.

http://publications.fifedirect.org.uk/c64_NonMaterialVariationFeb17.pdf

 

The side window is moot as it is a PC, but I would suggest taking a look through just in case there are Planning Matters where you want to lock in an option.

 

Two useful threads which explore the ambiguities:

Some people on here have obtained big changes via NMA; others have been given the planning bastinado for cosmetics. Very much a lottery.

 

@Sensus is the expert on those threads, but is temporarily not active it seems.

 

I would suggest your strongest technique will be to demonstrate support from your neighbours if you can if you want anything that affects them, so that will spike the Council desire to send out consultations by supplying the answers first. The ideal way is perhaps for you to draft an appropriate letter from them, and they then sign it and send in with your request.

 

Are you sure that you can extend a PP without a full reapplication? In England we could do that for a bit in the recession, but it went away in about 2012. Perhaps you still can in Scotland.

Edited by Ferdinand
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Wow, thanks for this. I figure we've about 2 meters to the west of our plot, with another 2 meters to the house there, but I'd have to do some work to determine the distance based the angels. Here's the house to the west.

 

p13.PNG.e4a0b8cbe5796c60ed4d40043ad9f573.PNG

 

And the gap on their side (I took this picture as we're not sure if we'll need a retaining wall for our stairs at that side of the house - i think our mud is holding up those steps):

 

58e653874e261_2016-12-1813_23_34.thumb.jpg.7343bd2f7391f10b2cbb14aded8b5301.jpg

 

And the site plan:

 

top.PNG.13fe34214d1aee10777b8a20cd44ecd7.PNG

 

It's the vertical planes I need to work out to determine the actual distance.

 

I agree, there's no reason we should not be allowed windows on the east elevation though. The 12 week appeal period has long passed.

 

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Again ... really just adding grist to the mill. You know your situation and your various relationships best, and what is desirable / expedient.

 

But I think that by definition something which is a Planning Condition cannot be considered under a Non-Material Amendment in Fife:

 

Quote

In dealing with requests to allow non-material variations to planning permissions, the following criteria should all be met prior to agreeing that formal planning permission is not required:

...

5. The proposed change does not reintroduce or alter an element which had previously been removed from the approved scheme either though a planning condition or subsequent negotiations to address objections received when the original scheme was approved. To avoid any doubt, details covered by a specific planning condition cannot be adjusted or deleted by submitting an NMV request.

 

There may be a complex interplay between the two different PPs - not clear whether changes to the first PP affect the second PP and how. What happens could be intricate, and it is possible to induce planning officers to say no by asking too much.

 

In the end you will get what is best for you. I will be a little quieter for a few days now.

 

No one is as familiar with the regs as they would like to be :-).

 

Edited by Ferdinand
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I'm not as familiar with the regs. as I'd like to be - i was leaving that to others, but have had to get more involved. I'll have a read.

 

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Some people on here have obtained big changes via NMA; others have been given the planning bastinado for cosmetics. Very much a lottery.

 

We tried a NMA with the original design (two dual-pitched roofs) - we requested an increase in the roof ridge. It was kicked out almost immediately. That approach was recommended by the architectural design agency we were using at the time and we were later told it would never have been accepted. £100 wasted and one of the reasons we got a proper architect.

 

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I would suggest your strongest technique will be to demonstrate support from your neighbours if you can if you want anything that affects them, so that will spike the Council desire to send out consultations by supplying the answers first. The ideal way is perhaps for you to draft an appropriate letter from them, and they then sign it and send in with your request.

 

I've not gotten to this part in our story yet, but we've been forced to add a 1.8m obscure glass panel to the west end of our balcony, as it looks onto the window next door. That neighbour wrote a letter of relief saying they had no issues but the council kicked that back saying they had to consider future owners too.

 

13 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Are you sure that you can extend a PP without a full reapplication? In England we could do that for a bit in the recession, but it went away in about 2012. Perhaps you still can in Scotland.

 

I've not looked into it for a while, but I thought we could. I might be getting mixed up with extending a warrant though. The original approval letter was 22nd May, so we'd have another 6 weeks if that is the case.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Again ... really just adding grist to the mill. You know your situation and your various relationships best, and what is desirable / expedient.

 

In the end you will get what is best for you. I will be a little quieter for a few days now.

 

No problem - thanks again for taking the time to provide your thoughts.

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