Gates and fence query, and section at end of drive...

[Ryang]

Hi all. Just embarking on a new house purchase with lots to do... pretty much everything actually, but looking forward to the challenge.  

 

The query I hope people on here can advise on is around a topic I've seen on here a few times.  I want to replace an existing driveway gate, and replace a hedge with a closeboard fence.  The hedge in the picture I attach looks nothing like that now, so offers no screen or security.  The gate is a farm gate style, and classically on the deck at the far end. I want to replace with 6ft automatic wooden gates.  I've seen as many have, the planning portal no permission required to replace like for like/1m gate, and 2m from highway/path.

 

The picture shows the green line as the boundry according to the fence boundary document.  The yellow line is more than 2m from the boundy to the path. The red box is technically not mine, but I see other houses on the same street have block paved this section.  As the yellow line is 2m to the path, do I need pp regardless of the red box area not being mine for 6ft gate and fence? Also, the box area is rough. Mix of tarmac and concrete, and would like to tidy it... I suspect the answer to that one for pp is a yes, but would guess many neighbours just did it?

 

Thanks in advance for opinions and advice in advance. I find many scenarios online but none where the drive is set back with the verge entrance being there.... 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Ryang

[DevilDamo]

The PD rules for fences, gates are quite clear...

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/20/fences_gates_and_garden_walls

 

Where are you getting this 2m length from?

 

Anything outside of your ownership will require third party approval, which would be the Highways authority. 

[Ryang]

Thanks for the reply. Yes that is clear. As ever with the Internet, I have read so many pages on the subject, I've overlapped all the pages I've read with what I thought the planning portal said.  It is the term about it being adjacent being unclear. This page for example https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/housing-property-and-neighbours/1402955-fencing-adjacent-to-a-highway-rules has this section around the definition to which I was wondering if anyone here had experience of:

 

"As you can see, there is no mention what constitues ' adjacent to a highway '. The generally accepted rule for permitted development is;

Fence within 1 metre of the Highway / Path next to highway should be under 1 metre tall.
Fence more than 1 metre away from the Highway / Path next to highway can be up to 2 metres tall."  I guess I'll just submit and advise request to them and go from there.  Thanks.

[DevilDamo]

Information found via the website, Planning Resource states...

 

The point here is that if not deemed to be "adjacent" to a public highway this fence would be permitted development by virtue of Part 2 of the General Permitted Development Order 1995. This question has arisen at appeal several times and Development Control Practice at (12.31) contains a number of relevant case summaries. The thrust of these decisions is that a wall or fence may be sited back from the edge of a highway and still be "adjacent" to it provided that the function of the enclosure is clearly to define the boundary of the property concerned from the highway. As each situation is different there is no common standard for setback distance that may be deduced from cases. An appeal decision from Tunbridge Wells determined last month is of interest as here an inspector concluded that an enclosure which lay 1.7m behind a footway was not adjacent to it. The situation here was that there was a substantial bed containing young trees and shrubs in front of the fence in dispute. The inspector felt that this bed was a feature of some substance in its own right separating the fence from the footway. In addition the inspector averred that the distance which separated the fence from a person standing on the footway was such that the person could not touch the fence without entering the land belonging to the property. This he argued meant that there was no sense of "immediacy or proximity" of the fence. I look forward to this inspector's "arms length" standard being introduced in future disputes of this type!

 

LPA’s have different interpretations of the rules. In my opinion and in that location, you’d require Planning to erect anything above 1m. Unless the existing situation is higher, which can be replaced at the same height.

[Ryang]

Thanks for your help. I'll submit my request and see what they come back with for the fence/gates, and highways repair to the apron, even if I pay for it.  Whoever did the block paving on the driveway years ago also left an awful concrete uneven hornching, which just looks like a bodge too, and must have looked awful the day the driveway was done too

[DevilDamo]

If your LPA offer it, you could choose to submit an informal Pre-application enquiry. However, I am 99% sure their response would confirm the proposals would not constitute PD and a formal Planning application would be required.

Edited February 7, 2021 by DevilDamo