Wolfman310

So the SE came and was rather interesting chat. waiting for them to confirm but their initial thoughts were. 1. They think the ceiling down and the joists that are deflected need cutting out as they are done with and will never have a flat roof again without. 2. if you are doing that then they thought the new frame should go from internal wall to internal wall and ignore the wall plate as opposite the wall plate is only the timber with the joist hanger and the spans is large for it to sit on was initial impression. The existing joists can then connect back in to the new frame which will support the ceiling. not explained very well but will share the drawing when I get it. I think Oso were thinking something to be knocked up quick, but with a ceiling down and new frame, joists being cut and connected to rectify the issues is what it is. I can answer the question, Nick. Nothing connects as the water comes in from the bathroom (same one with the ceiling issue) it has the toilet on it only before it gets to the loft. the outside tap is fed off the pipe in the kitchen sink area that feeds the dishwasher/washing machine and isn’t separate, nor are the appliances so the kitchen will need a rejig by the sounds of it.

Cheers Nick. like you say, nothing too major a problem, isn’t terrible, a little help could be all the difference so will ditch the pump idea and look towards an accumulator only. Shall go read some more on the Stuart Turner Mainsboost. They seem expensive compared to the equivalent from global water solutions for instance, is it a case of get what you pay for on these? The morning peak seems to impact by a few ltrs, I think that morning peak demand is significant and is what I see most before going out to work. Do you think pipe work will need playing with? Thanks for all your time.

Thanks Nick. Trying to understand what my issue is and the reasoning behind it, first principles almost. I need to check tomorrow morning and I think the biggest issue is the en-suite the other end of the bungalow has a bad shower in the morning. It’s rather noticeable how bad it is versus at other times. so I got my cheapo weir cup, and cheapo pressure gauge out and got the following at 3.30pm today. Incoming water pipe was replaced a year ago for a new 25mm blue PE. Severn Trent state they expect circa 2.9Bar from the nearest logger they have. water comes in and straight in to 22mm copper up in to loft and hot water cylinder. Pressure Pressure standing = 2.9/3Bar. Kitchen Cold Tap on. Pressure drops to 1.9Bar. Bathroom Sink Cold on. Pressure also drops to 1.9Bar Both kitchen cold tap on and main bathroom sink cold tap on. Pressure drops to between 0.9/1.2bar. Water flow Kitchen Cold tap = 10/12Ltr Kitchen Hot Tap = 10/12ltr Both On = 20/22ltr Main Bathroom Sink Cold Tap = 10/12ltr Main Bathroom Sink Hot Tap = 10/12ltr Both on = 16/18ltr Bathroom Bath Cold Tap = 16/18ltr Bathroom Bath Hot Tap = 14/16ltr Both on = above 22ltrs En-Suite opposite end of the bungalow Sink Cold Tap = 11 ltrs Sink Hot Tap = 11 ltrs Both On = 20ltrs En-suite shower when on jet function and temperature you shower. 10/12ltrs. Same whether out the head of the tube directly. Turn on cold tap in en-suite and shower drops to 7/8 on jet function and out of the tube. the shower is the best it gets, will check tomorrow morning at 7am what flow and pressure as everyone on the road uses you can tell. For instance turning up the shower head now the water would hit the ceiling, in the mornings you are lucky if it reaches 2feet in height. Deciphering is the fun bit.

So, dealing with Oso was hard work again, but have finally got them to agree to cover the cost of a SE and will reimburse me on completion. The quote includes, Site inspection, beam design, deck design, and drawings, for £750+vat and they are visiting on Friday. Originally they agreed for a SE but then stipulated for a SE assess the existing platform which was pointless as they have accepted they have caused the issue. on another note, can start to think about what comes next. Nick. Do you have a brand of choice for an accumulator and pump at all? once everything all done and fixed. The platform will be suitable for everything so can start looking at this too and then come back to you. I wanted to say thanks to everyone for input, and comment. I hope it shows a record for others in the future that even companies you may expect to get things right don’t.

Just saying that too actually so is a good point, paid Oso, it is their problem, they have accepted the install whether they want to accept it or not.

How interesting, I went to school in Lutterworth. I live just down the A5 by Hinckley so definitely doable and by in-laws are in Northants. once this is resolved if I can get the platform/plinth strong enough opens up the options to get an accumulator and/or pump. just emailing them telling them they should want to pay for a structural engineer in any case so they can be assured it is acceptable. Be interesting to see what they say. they really are utter shit

Yeh, sorry, pyramids all over! happy for you to complete if you want a challenge. LE10 on the edge of Leicestershire/coventry has its perks, a custard cream painted 1950’s bungalow and in need of someone competent!!

1950’s bungalow and is all original this section 👍🏻

Thanks. I will email them tonight and explain I want an independent to view and design the frame so they know what they are doing. they can’t be trusted.

Hi all, so way of an update. Apologies for the slow reply, full on at the minute with going on holiday. No call back at close of play from Oso on Thursday, so before I left on holiday Friday morning emailed them as it had been two days. They chose to respond with a statement they didn’t realise they had a timeframe, and disappointingly they are adamant and keep pushing it back to the subby who did it all in the first place and have a view he should fix the mess he created. I asked for the original design and calculations that had been undertaken but they ignore this. I also asked on what criteria they can say it’s OK for the short term, also ignored. I think it is obvious they just tried to wing it. oso view is the sub contractor will do whatever is required to resolve, but I think Oso should take ownership and fix. I think I should push it out to a structural engineer at Oso cost to come up with the design that they install to take the weight. The main guy from Oso is on holiday so has just left it to the subby to pick up when I am back from holiday. the lack or urgency and accountability from Oso is really poor.

this is the walls, the one on the right probably not suitable as the water comes in on the left of the cylinder and runs alongside and in. the wall on the left of the cylinder would probably be better?

Yep, indeed. All to be removed, new frame to be decided but is what’s needed and then put back and replumbed. the ceiling he didn’t want to mention until I said about what’s going to happen with the ceiling. Funnily, he said once the strain is removed from the joists it will deflect back in to place. he said the crack in the ceiling would then close up and would be minimal. I think some people just spin a load of BS and believe it them self. On Friday morning my family and I are off to the gorgeous Devon for a week so it will give them a week to figure it out.

All done through Oso. Though they seem desperate for the original guy to fix because I think it means they can hand responsibility back and not be bothered. They were paid, their problem I think to resolve. Oso were meant to be calling me back today but didn’t bother so I will be calling them tomorrow. I will get some photos of the space if that’s OK so you can see what’s occurring and space for an accumulator, I don’t think of using the wall section the roof sits on.

It does look really shit doesn’t it? large update, am sorry. so I got hold of Oso and the service and warranty manager who I dealt with originally. I was not aware, but the installation was done by sub contractors, but told the best sub contractor they have and he did the works on the base and when he left his lads did the plumbing. Interestingly I sent the same photos as in this thread and asked OSO if they think it looks a tidy job and they said no, but then allow this to happen. So they think it is a shit job too. The same guy who installed it all came out today, agreed it is the rear timbers they installed on the existing joists that are giving up, worryingly said he was surprised and thought that would hold up OK and was a good job and couldn’t believe it was failing. Told him I think at a minimum it needs two C24 timbers to the wall plate, a timber running the same direction as the large existing to pick up the two supporting walls at each end like the existing timber is (begs the question why when they are present you wouldn’t and leave it hanging off 3 ceiling joists on that end) and that a carpenter needs to erect it properly. said he thought the cracks and bow in the ceiling is my issue for when I decorate and would straighten up mostly on its own. Cracking I can live with, 3 joists no as I can’t repair that if they don’t straighten out. Maybe new timbers can be installed and the bowed joists can be screwed to that to shore them up. Agreed they need to fix it, next is how and who. is a shame as I wanted an accumulator installed as water flow/pressure is awful in the morning but only place that could go is up there as well, one step too far it would seem.

Yeh, it was £600 cheaper than the equivalent Telford which also needed the expansion tanks on top too so in that respect wasn’t too bad. Telford weren’t very good at all and were disappointed in them. We only moved here in October 2023 so been fixing issues in a 1950’s bungalow. The previous Telford was only 10 years old but hadn’t been registered or serviced it turned out. Last year when we tried to service it with Telford and paid for the service, they came and refused as it was leaking and the welds were failing. they accepted that whether it was registered or serviced would have made no difference to it failing but would not give any discount or goodwill gesture. not that they had too but wanted them to stand by their product more especially as it would have made little difference. I am hoping Oso are going to fair better than Telford did.

I have tracked down some original names and I dealt with the service and warranty manager. So will go back to him I think and explain. Not sure it was worth over £2K in hindsight.

Some great points again, thanks for this, has really helped. The secondary works to the bathroom I would just take the hit on as it will be refit at some point anyway as it needs to become a wet room for our son so would be a fair offer for that to be ignored or like you say get it skimmed. Good idea about a carpenter, will certainly be suggesting this.

I am hoping they do the right thing. I think the existing timbers will have to be removed and replaced to straighten it back out. Fingers crossed, will update with progress.

Thanks for your quick reply, really appreciated. Is what I suspected too. I will contact them first thing Monday morning. I suspect you’re right, the deflection was only very small beforehand as the original cylinder was almost fully on the large timber which spans a long way across. Wasn’t the screws popping or cracks beforehand either. The timber they have installed crosses maybe 3 existing ceiling timbers, but if they had gone one longer across is a supporting wall (bottom left of the cylinder you can see the brickwork) with the brickwork supporting the roof which wouldn’t have hindered. it was Oso themselves which is frustrating. They sent out the lead engineer beforehand to see what they were working with due to my concerns as they originally thought it would be ok with just the one large timber and I said it wouldn’t. the lead engineer came and installed the timbers, one length which was cut in the roof in half and the two nailed together as was left and can see the nail popping through. two less experienced engineers then did the install once he had finished and the experienced one left for another job. hopefully Oso won’t argue and just fix it properly. I could see them suggesting it isn’t their problem.

Hi there. Need some advise regarding the following please… Whilst in the shower I noticed what I thought was the ceiling having a slight bow in it, and I was right. It’s a bungalow so ground floor ceiling in to the loft. it is circa deflecting 2cm and is in the location of a hot water cylinder that OSO came and installed circa October last year. I am concerned just how much it has moved especially as it is enough for me to see whilst showering. Do these things get to a point and then settle or should I be going back to OSO? The large timber with the joist hangers were already present and had a 170ltr Telford cylinder on it and some other useless timber. the smaller timbers supporting the rear of the cylinder span a smaller number of timbers and is what OSO installed for their 250ltr cylinder. I think the timbers they installed are the ones putting the strain as they aren’t spreading the weight across enough and is roughly in the location. Any views as i think it may just get worse? if so i will need to ask OSO to rectify and need to support it better. (They were told about my concerns beforehand as a quote from telford identified the need to support the rear of the cylinder and this was passed on to Oso)

It’s a shame you are not closer to me, I am between Leicester and Coventry. I bought 6x 20ft3 grey from Polypearl in Nottingham and I have used less than 1 so got 5 and a bit bags left to sell which would do at the cost I got them from.

A company called Poly Pearl http://polypearl.co.uk will sell the Grey EPS beads to a DIY person in 10ft3 bags to pour in at circa £22 + VAT per bag. they have been really helpful since I contacted them after my posting here.

Great stuff. thanks for the reply. gives confidence I should be OK. I have managed to locate a company that will sell the grey EPS beads in 10m3 bags in Nottingham called polypearl if you ever need any further beads.

Hi @osprey how have you got on with your EPS beads in your chimney? Any issues at all? I am going to be doing the same soon and trying to work out the best filling material.

Good luck with the other chimney. Great to hear someone else doing the same as I was thinking, especially with no provision for any air circulation. Is difficult to establish the best infill material, I had been looking at a few options and then got befuddled with options.