Kenny

Let me play devils' advocate - What does your gentleman's agreement say about antiquities? Let's say you have a main contractor on site, they start excavating, and holy moley they dig up a norman chest full of gold amulets. Who do they belong to? Contract Law would state that arisings and materials from carrying out the works belong to the Contractor! They get one sniff of that law and they will fight you all the way for a few million don't you think? Just saying. I agree with the fact that on the vast majority of well-run sites it's not required, but wow does it help when you need it. Think of playing football without a rule book - silly isn't it? How many times when you were young did you all know the rules of football but still get into an argument about who did what? I wouldn't use a contract to enforce silly rules, but certainly, if my client was at considerable risk then I would. Great debate guys! I guess the moral of the story is that there is a time and a place for it, and it would definitely depend on the way in which it was introduced, and who was administering it. You need to be fair to both parties.

Alex, Contracts are there for those 2% occasions! They are not only to protect the client from the builder but quite often, especially on domestic builds, I've had to use them to protect the builder from the client!!! They don't have to be lengthy either, a simple domestic contract can take about 6 pages (with additional pages for explaining its administration), see the FMB one I've attached which was free to download, or the JCT Homeowners contract. Agreeing on sensible things like payment stages, timings and completion dates are all key upfront discussions to be had, and if you are one of those who does that already, you've got it nailed! A good QS/PM/CA should always act with a degree of neutrality, ensuring the match has a ref, if you pardon the pun. It's not all about ripping off the builder by asking for him to shave £2 off his rates just because...there needs to be a clear rationale for these discussions. FMB F221 Plain Domestic (-t) Building Contract.pdf

Thanks for the warm welcome JS! Sounds like CDM has been done to death, and as you say, it is not required from a Self Builders point of view. Looking forward to spending some time perusing the chat forums in more detail in due course. Best regards Kenny

You are totally right, a pre construction health and safety plan needs to be in place by the principal Contractor before the project commences, check out CDM2015 on the HSE website. Homeowners are not held responsible for this when professionals are employed though as they have a duty of care inform you.

Interesting thread, a bit concerning in some cases. I'm a Chartered Quantity Surveyor, and Project Manager (not touting for business, already too busy! :)) and have been surprised at a number of things. Has no one seen the property shows, dear architect, we have 100k budget - Architect designs to suit client requests which were unrealistic and come in at 150k. There are specific steps in a commercial construction project which should be followed, take lessons from the multi million pound developers. Look at the RIBA plan of work (Google it). Initial concept design then detailed design (for planning) , should be costed and any issues ironed out before these projects are taken to site and into contract. Why would you not have a contract? Why would you not have a pricing document? Don't get an online QS to give you national average rates that mean nothing. Go local, go small practice, negotiate fees, ensuring you know what you are getting from them. Get them to procure the contractor for you, they'll have local relationships with builders they have used before. Let the architect do what they are excellent at doing, designing the accommodation you want, but let your QS cost it and manage those costs to ensure its delivered for that. Google "find a Surveyor" to get a Chartered member of the RICS. Ask all professionals for a fixed price fee, why would you pay a QS / Architect a % of the finished costs when you have told them your budget from the start, no incentive to keep the costs down, but the reverse is true, the higher the build costs the more money they make! FMB used to do a crystal mark contract for homeowners, not sure if it's still kicking about. I tend to use JCT or SBCC (in Scotland) minor works contracts as they are simple in nature. You do need someone professional to administrator them though, useless in someone's hands who doesn't know it back to front including your contractor! When it comes to negotiations, there is no % to agree, unless you are simply talking about the contractors profits, Best course of action is to get a proper pricing document, such as an NRM cost plan or bill of quantities (I use NRM1 to provide a cost plan, but include extra details so it can be later costed by the contractor - with my figures excluded - as part of my tender exercise. A full bill of quantities will most likely terrify most contractors who do single house projects. Once you have the completed costs in from three contractors you can other benchmark your QS's costs and make sure they are right (yes, check them too, I've seen some crazy looking spreadsheets and pie charts on this site that bear no resemblance to a proper cost plan!) and also measure any variations to your contract as your build progresses. Need an extra 25m2 of walls, no problem, refer to your tender doc, get the rate per m2 they quoted and hey presto, you have the cost of the variation (that's a bit simplistic, you will also have to consider other items in any variations such as in the case of increased wall area, such as skirting, decor, slabs etc, but just trying to make a point) I hope it helps, and I'm happy to chat more if anyone is interested. Great site, keep up the good work team! Kenny