Hi, thanks, opening the drain cover, and looking at how deep the hole is, the hole is not as deep as the manhole is, i spoke to a guy who said it should be just below the service? this may explain why it's not been found, i just really need to make sure that the pipe is where i'm digging, as it stands now, to dig any deeper would mean removing more of the path, more work, which is ok, long as the pipe is in the place i'm digging, my reason for posting really.