Ants

Thank bgmill. We are going to try and negotiate and now I think I have enough understanding the their systems to approach with confidence.

To Russell Griffiths You are completely right in all that you say. As a novice in this area, having to learn lots from the internet, I found you guys and now I know. At the beginning I didn't even know what questions to ask. Now I do. Now I know the answers. All good.

Hi Pro Dave The issue is trying to find out why the quote the DNO have given us is so high and if we can put a case of negotiating it down. I have considered every route to date but I thought I would just check with the skilled and professional people on the ground with experience to find out if they had any ideas. My first tack was to suggest that it would be to their advantage to upgrade their system and we would share the cost. That was a defiant NO. I haven't talked with them since while I did more research to find a negotiating leaver! I have tried everything: Tree Threat : No they would just trim them. Wayleave: No case as this project has been requested by the landowner and cancelling the Wayleaves by Court Order would not work as they would apply for a Necessary Wayleave and was advised by a lawyer that we would not win and the process would take about a year to complete and we would lose and waste money. Height of the cables being too low: No - all the assets are in good order. I then started talking with an ICP. I ask them to quote the job, in the hope that we would get a lower price. It was only then that I learnt about the implications of HV lines verses LV lines. I did not know this and became aware that the body of the work was non-contestable work due to HV lines and contestable work. The ICP quickly shut my request down after they saw the works that needed to be carried out. We have negotiated to do the trenching which reduced the quote by 30K. So I then looked at how the new Biomass building construction and the delivery lorry might threaten the HV lines in the hope that we could persuade them that it would be to their advantage to put that section underground at their cost and we would take the cost of the rest. I have subsequently found out from Jeremy Harris that the chances of this are unlikely and you can read that thread above. I think now the landowner will have to take this one on the chin. He will be more reassure that the cost quoted by the DNO is realistic and their Monopoly status is probably not the reason why it is expensive but down to the fact that works involving HV lines, poles and substations are expensive. Hope that clears this up for you and if you have any tips do let me know.

To Jeremy Makes me laugh that you know about ships. All that you say makes sense. I have only learnt the out of sight internal workings of my little terraced house by default when things breakdown. All systems were put in by an amateur (a very good one though) so it is all bespoke and when the professionals come in I have to give them a brief first so they don't spend that extra couple of days working out where everything is. They are always very grateful. I am grateful to you and all others for helping me with this. Thank you. I think that informed and proper decisions can be made by my Leader now that he knows the whole story. He was shocked at the price and thought that he was being ripped off but after I inform him of all this I think he will be reassured that this is standard. I will do a cable search, then get the engineer on site and see if he comes up with any alternatives and maybe it will reduce the cost...... or maybe it will rise? Ka Sera Sera. Thank you lovely people I am signing off now. Will be back I am sure when the next project starts. Biomass Boilers here we come. Angela

To Andrew I really like this site. I like learning all this stuff. Information is power. I am shocked to hear how they don't care. It is a good day. I found real information. Thanks.

To Jeremy Harris That is very interesting. We the general public have no idea about all this. It sounds chaotic and out of control. But I suppose it is their norm. No wonder the private service companies are impenetrable. They don't want us to find out the real truth. If as individuals we ran our lives like this we are put in prison. One rule for them and a different one for us. We continue to live in an unjust world. Lets hope with the opportunity we have for change, whether we agree with the current Country's collective choice or not, we start to get a grip on things.

To Declan 52 There is no opportunity of change from the Biomass option. But thanks for the tip of ASHP. I will look into that for other areas!

To Jeremy Harris Oh My Goodness!!!! That is unbelievable. I am horrified to hear this. These Monopolies are dangerous companies. Where is their professional responsibility? Surely that is illegal? Anyway. I will apply to the mapping service then, to find out what is under our ground! After a couple of months and massive amounts of research, I have not really understood the complexities of dealing with these DNOs. until now. I have been stonewalled by all officials, lawyers and independents when going down all avenues. You are a gold mine of information. Thank you so much for your time.

Thanks for your knowledge. Interesting. Rock and hard place! On the documentation they sent it has a section called Locating Cables on Site. "The drawings that I have enclosed with this quotation are not suitable for locating cables on site. To obtain the lastest copies of our cable records please send a plan of the area in question" I don't really understand why this section is in here. Surely they know where their Assets are? Are they asking us to locate unseen cables perhaps?

Thank you Jeremy Harris. That is good to know. Do you know if the DNOs will consider options to reduce costs by considering alternative routes for the underground cables? Also are they likely to say that as the New Building is threatening the overhead HV lines to move the building or can you refuse to move the building and then they have to either move their lines or contribute to the cost of putting them underground?

Thanks for all these replies. I think I will try and get a breakdown of the costs and see if I can negotiate from there and follow up on standard of set charges. Here is the job that they are doing The Non-Contestable work quoted just shy of 60K( we have already reduced the cost by 30K by taking on the contestable work of trenching) supply and install 1 x 200kVA padmounted substation supply and install 190m of 150mm2 XLPE erect 1 x HV terminal pole dismantle 3 x HV section pole, 1 x HV terminal pole, and 3 x spans of HV overhead line. supply and install 30m 50mm2 ABC overhead line supply and install 135m of 185mm2 wavecon cable erect 2 x LV terminal pole dismantle 2 x LV section poles and 3 x spans of LV overhead line arrange traffic management.

After reading a thread from May 17 about underground cable laying, I have done endless research ( it has been a steep learning curve) in order to prepare a case to convince the SSE to contribute to the cost. I keep coming up against brick wall after brick wall and I was wondering if anybody could advise me. I have had conversations with ICPs who advised me that all the work quoted was non-contestable other than the excavation and reinstatement to facilitate diversions of assets. Although they have been helpful they will not give me any insider information on how to challenge the DNO. DNO's case: The property owner has requested the work. All the existing equipment is in good condition, plus no cables hanging below the require height specs, so they will not consider a case that it is to their advantage to upgrade by replacing them with under ground cables. Wayleaves - we have these. We cannot use 'cancelling' wayleaves as part of the case as they will just get a court order and apply for Necessary Wayleaves. We will lose and spend lots of money on solicitors and a wasted year. Found this out after talking with specialist lawyers. Our case: Overhanging trees are a threat. Storm Ciara did blow down one tree but it missed the electricity cables and brought down the telephone wires. But it shows the potential for this to happen to their equipment. We have photos of this incident as proof of this threat. The tree was not on our property and not our responsibility. Will they just insist that Highways trim the trees or is this a viable point to put forward? We are preparing to install a Biomass heating system on our land, to include the building to house the boiler and space to hold the wood chips. The building planners have reviewed the HV lines height from the building which meet the HSE requirements BUT the lorry delivering the wood chip will pose a danger to the HV lines if it comes of the track (which is highly possible ) and therefore will not pass the HSE requirements. Will they force us to move the building so it does meet the HSE requirements or can we refuse to move the building as it is our land and insist that they move their cables and therefore they will have to take the cost of putting the cables underground in that particular area? There has been no site visit yet and the DNO has quoted it blind. Does a site visit make a difference to the quote? Any chance that they will reduce it after that? Has anybody got any thoughts or ideas that might help or answer any of my questions? Thanks.