Clive Osborne

Thank you. Some bed time reading

Yes I understand that's pretty typical but some use it directly in a all in one heat pump cylinder

Do you use the heat extracted ?

I will find the blank spreadsheet and post it on here. It had parts about being open to the elements.

That would explain it. Certainly in the case of combi boilers.

That's very true I have seen some shocking ASHP installs where they have left the emmiters as per the gas boilers they replaced them with.They run at 45C and then wonder why people complain . How do you calculate air changes in @SteamyTea last numbers.

No it's a room by room heat loss tool it just uses standard degree days etc to compare guides on running cost based on the results.

You probably heard a wooshing sound as a lot of that went over my head. But I will go through it all again

Purely guide on running cost

@JSHarris what are your thoughts on this ? Its electric storage heat at 12 watts per sq meter for a 1987 build. It goes against what I have been taught. But as I said before every day is a school day ! Its interesting for sure. Is it really that simple ( not the working out part I appreciate that's beyond most people ) but the principal? Do we go overboard on sizing ? I have seen some huge KW oil boilers in relatively small places.

Exactly that reason comparison to ASHP Biomass FIR GSHP running costs. Just a guide for people no other reason. Been a while since I have done one to be honest.

I was born on Somerset I am not in a position to say anything

I will look at the spreadsheet and send over my last heat pump version

Of couse it will be interesting although it's the air heating market and off gas grid we concentrate on until they release the next version of SAP . We obviously go above the heat loss level but I still cant see a 1987 house with storage heaters heating air at 12 watts per sq meter heat loss even in Devon. Its certainly ended up an interesting post after a rocky start ! If you are ever near Andover it would be good to meet. Every day is a school day !

Regardless I got it wrong anyway ! I was thrown by the 13,500 figure. Apologies. So if you have 1.2KW of heating I make that 25 watts psm going into the house. I would have to so a full heat loss calc for what is going out. I would never go that low on a 1980s build unless it's been seriously updated. Regardless of the form of heating even an ASHP but that's just my opinion. At 12 watt psm I would say that's passive standard.

Yes been doing Heat Loss calcs for heat pumps for many years . Bit we dont calculate in cubic meters and our air change calc is different. Hence I can only compare covering 100% of the floor or ceiling without full data. I have never done a calculation when a ASHP was the same price as storage heater. I also would use a cylinder with a heat pump built in rather than heat with just an immersion. Bloody hell he must have been freezing in winter 6C is a huge difference.

Simply 13500 / 48. We work in sq meters with standard room heights . Then I compared covering 100% of the area with Nexgen. I am only doing it as a comparison. If people want something on a wall heating air rather than 100% of the floor or ceiling radiating out at 28C that's upto them. How many hours it would be on etc is another issue. I would need to know U Values etc. We can only compare to heating the whole area. I have to date never done over 80% coverage of a floor or ceiling. Also the whole area is heated not wires or strips with silver paste

Normally using u values and full heat loss calculations. I am working in comparison to how we calculate. Covering 100% of the floor or heating 116 watts per square meter. The storage heaters may be oversized.

To me that's 281 watts per square meter on heat loss calcs. I would calculate a maximum of 120 watts per sq meter with Nexgen probably less subject to full heat loss calcs.. I appreciate you work on cubic meters heating air but that would be the calculation if we sized it. So with solar PV you can see it makes sense. Actually I just worked out covering 100% of the floor or ceiling at an even temperature of 28C on the surface of our product we would be 116 watts per square meter.

Sorry but the 12 w psm makes no sense to me at all . If you have found a way to keep a 1987 build heated at that power I would like to know what tech you are using. I just cant see this being the case. I am @JSHarris can elaborate much better than I can

The fact you have to heat water first by a boiler would overall make it less radiant. Also please remember comfort is a personal thing.

Did you read the medical part ? As I said I use FIR not near or mid for pain relief. Benefits vary by temperature.You saw the wavelength v temperature graph ? This is why we promote the FIR benefit . I have actually read on some companies sites it cures all sorts of ailments. Even some types of cancer. This does nothing to promote our product of course. It makes our case much more difficult. Its very frustrating

Would depend on heat loss. Heat goes from hot to cold so from a air temp point of view it would go off due to stat temp . We are of course objects as well. Also its FIR wavelength/ temperature and in our case emitter size. Depends on wall , floor or ceiling fitting and what is covering the film. No need to leave it on constantly.

Interesting article regarding temp and wavelength along with absorption into body. nihms426504.pdf

Well there is a lot of off gas grid properties being built and I still believe for well insulated new homes we make a good case in comparison to heating air. Garden offices etc. We actually sold more in Holland than the UK last year. But I will never say it's cheaper to run than mains gas. Unless its convection and no zoning and a very old gas boiler then we can make a case taking maintaince and servicing into account. Some people are paying £10 to £20 a month for maintenance contracts on gas boilers. Then of course there is the green credentials and the fact no more gas boilers will be fitted in new homes from 2025 in the UK. For other parts of Europe sooner. Hopefully more people will buy PV. But this government do not want it. They are increasing VAT on solar and battery installs from 5% to 20% , gas boilers still 5%. They have a green tax on electric of 17% on gas 1.8%. They base the CO2 emissions on electric from years ago when we burnt much more coal.I have had meetings in Westminster in the housing ministry and they take advice from "experts" who have vested interests.