NeverEnoughCake

Thank you all for your opinions.

EpsilonGreedy Thanks for your input. Though I find your reasoning also faulty. The average life of solar panels is 25 years. Say we have 4 lithium batteries, 2 controller systems and two generators in that time. Going by what we have chosen that comes to approx 18k The average UK electric bill is £49. Month, our connection quote was 7k, assuming meter cost, digger fuel, stone dust, conduit etc for trench at 1k that comes to approx 23k over 25 years. Obviously we would have to account for generator fuel, but also assume that the cost of new solar equipment will drop in price and gain power efficiency. I imagine grid electricity charges will only continue to rise over the coming years. I can understand the lithium battery issue, but I understand that as they are now becoming a major problem with regards to the first electric car batteries coming to the end of their life, advances are being made to prolong their use in other ways. We are not swayed by politics, just by our own instinct for what is right for us. We feel this is the way forward, the more people invest in off grid alternatives the faster the technology will move.

Thanks ed It is the hair shirt way for us..try what we think suits us, alter it if we can if it doesn't. Have to pop off to deal with horse faecal matter and farrier Thanks all.

Alexphd Definitely not a major..we have a digger and my partner could do it, but it's the principle. Dig our own trench, get our own stone dust, conduit and warning tape and fill the trench back up again..and pay 7k for a couple of days labour and some cable. For us it wasn't the way we wanted to go.

Christine 25k.!!!!! Did you have to dig your own trench as well? I feel your caravan pain, we have been in ours for six years! But we did have an underground cable from the farmhouse because we knew it would be a long term thing. Each to their own, but we have decided to do the off grid self sufficient thing and we know we will have to dramatically change the way we do things, but it will be worth it just to be where we are. Of course you are right, electricity is a basic need but you can also keep your needs basic. Perhaps caravan living is a good way of deciding how little you really require or how much you really miss. We have been using a composting toilet for six years...our biggest dream is a flushing loo.!

Thanks JS and ED As previously said, we tussled with this topic for a long time. We are totally confused by the numerous forums, articles etc for solar power. And to be honest, now just bored of thinking about it. We calculated based on our usage and hours of sun using several sites that ALL told us we would need 4 panels!! We are going to go with 7. Frankly, it doesn't matter how many panels you have if there is no sun there is no power. We accept this, and it is why we will have a battery and generator to try and see us through those times. We have no choice, we are not going to be grid connected. Our approach will be use as little power as needed, rather than try to increase power to meet our needs. I am home all day and so can vacuum, use washing machine etc during peak production times. We have no problem sitting by the woodburner by candlelight on a cold winters night, in fact we will probably do that even if we do have power, so long as we can keep our fridge and freezer going overnight. Having said that we could probably ditch the freezer if need be. Our electrical needs: Phone/tablet charger ( 1 hour a day) TV (couple of hours a day at the weekend) Hairdryer( 3 times week) Vacuum (1 hour a week) Washing machine ( 4 times a week) Toaster (1 hour a week) will use gas oven in winter fridge Small chest freezer. Kettle (1 hour a day) will switch to gas kettle in the winter. LED lighting. We will start of with the kit I mentioned previously, with the knowledge that we can add panels/batteries if we need to. On winter days we will use a small generator to charge battery in the morning, and see how much a trickle feed from the solar manages throughout the day. As I said in a previous post, we take a chance that solar power will keep advancing and we can upgrade our system as and when it does. For anyone out there embarking on off grid, can I suggest you take a look at Maximus Ironthumper on you tube. He is very informative and interesting to watch.

We have tussled with this issue for a long time. We would have, in all fairness, connected to the grid for electricity, but we were quoted £7000.00 and we had to dig our own trench! This was money we would never have got back, and we would then be paying them for electricity for the rest of our lives. For about the same cost we can install our solar kit, and never pay another electric bill. At the moment it is still fairly new technology that is advancing all the time, so we take a chance that in the future when things need replacing the prices will have come down a fair bit and they will generate more power. We can adapt things as and when new things develop. Our ideal would probably have been a hydro system, but with no stream actually running past the property it's not an option. Domestic wind turbines aren't suitable because we either have a slight breeze, or its blowing a gale and they would just switch off. We accept that power will be an issue over winter, but so long as the fridge keeps running that's ok. Cosy nights by candlelight with a good book and the woodburner going will see us through. We chose a mixture of wood, solar and gas so that we had options should anything fail. We originally thought of roof mounting the panels, but changed our mind. Most people want a south facing property, but ours will face east because that's where the view is. So we thought about a ground array, but not for long cos they look awful. We have settled on a car port roof, which will face south, and will work for any future electric cars we get, but unless they start making 4x4 pick ups I don't think it will be any time soon.!! Thank you all for your advice, I'm off now to find a builder to scribble some prices for foundations on a fag packet? Will be back with update or request for more info.

EpsilonGreedy Here goes.. Windows and doors 7.5k Roof and insulation 6.5k Blocks and ties 3.7k Lintels 1.5k Sandstone 7.2k Mortar and plasticiser 1.3k Foundations 12k? Wall insulation 700.00 Stone cills 1k Surecav cavity system 3k Scaffold, skip, portaloo..1.5k This is materials only, and does not include LABOUR or legal costs. Does not include site insurance cost or plant hire. Does not include ANY mains connections.

Pulham down Thanks for that....we are kind of looking at one hurdle at a time...we want costs first...if we can't afford to do it the way we want why bother applying for planning permission. Planning problems will be overcome when they arise....but PMA..we won't have any!!!! If we do then we'll deal with it.

Hello Jack We will In deed be installing a gas boiler. We are living in a caravan at the moment, and we have managed with the tiny LPG boiler for showering, and all hot water needs, and we have decided to install one in the house. Worcester/Bosch do a little one that is more powerful than the one we are currently using and we think it will be fine. So its LPG GAS cooker and hot water, solar power, and woodburner for heat. That's alot of power you have! We are low users..about 2000kwh a year! Going with 7 x 365 LG neon mono panels, Victron easisolar48/3000/70-50-230v-c/w integral mppt charge controller, BYD -B-PLUSL 2.56 kWh 48v lithium battery...any thoughts?

Js I see your point Firstly, we will be self sufficient for energy via solar, battery and back up generator, so we will be using our own power for the washing machine, which will of course be used when the solar is at it's most productive time of the day. Secondly, with regards to the water, we need more of it, not just another way of storing it. The original spring is actually a powerful flow, but during very dry periods it turns muddy and barely runs out of the tap. It has only ever served the main farm and will now have to stretch to two properties. If the stream running through the property dries up, which happens usually every summer at some point, then the spring also becomes the main source of water for the animals as well. So as you can see, it's very important that we gain additional water.

Js Rainwater needed because we will be sharing original farm water supply with other party. They are a family who will use more. We will of course fit filtering and cleaning processes before we use it, even though it won't be for drinking. We would use rainwater for everything, but legally you can't use it for showering and drinking. We don't do much in the way of cold washing in the machine....hot wash because my partner has a manual job, and we live on a farm. Bird faecal matter is the least of our faecal matter worries!!?

Js Blimey! Ok..think some of those things will relate to us. With regards to the stone, we have specified the stone, from a local quarry that much of the surrounding buildings and local town are constructed from, will they need to have samples even though it's the go to stone of the area? Landscaping..we have a detailed plan of the site with positions of new woodland, orchard, garden, paddock, fences, stone walling and gravel driveway ( which may move about a bit in the final submission re foundations) All these things will be completed but not immediately, were you given a time scale for completion of landscaping? With regards to the water issues, not quite the same as you, but can you or anyone else help? We are fitting a water harvesting system to the roof to supply toilet, washing machine, animals and garden. We will tap into an existing spring water supply for everything else. We in theory have no need for drains to channel away rainwater, however, should we need to would we be able to run a pipe to remove excess into a lower drainage ditch, which in turn runs down to a ditch in the road and into a storm drain?

Patp Definitely get some sort of heating. We have tried several types of storage. Previously, during a house renovation, we put everything in a big yellow storage facility. Stuff was secure and dry, but we hired such a large unit that the costs were considerable because we used it for 6 months. At the moment, we are like you living in a caravan because we sold our property. We gave away most of the stuff we knew we wouldn't need because of downsizing, but the remainder is stored in a barn. It's not good! White goods are fine..but if your thinking of upholstery, or mattresses etc cover it well and keep away from damp. I suspect your things will be better off than ours in a modern garage compared to a ropey old barn though!! In summary, if costs allowed, I would opt for a storage facility.

Ian, sue, jsharris Ian...costs 46k shell and core (allowing 12k for foundations s?) 33k interior fit out not including furniture..these are costs for materials only and do not include LABOUR. Sue..as mentioned we feel comfortable with the solicitor. There are many other legal things to take into consideration. We inherited a business between two family members, division of property, change of land usage etc. We are having plans drawn up to our spec by a pro who will forward copies to us and the solicitor, and our solicitor has in fact suggested we also use a planning consultant. She is a rural solicitor well heeled in the trials and tribulations of farming/land/inheritance stuff. It is good to know you have faith in your neighbour?also, regarding the windows, we were invited to the showroom at an appointed time, given coffee, shown examples of doors, frames, colour options. Choose locks, handles and obscured glass design, given time frames, and at no point was a "fag packet" used..just a calculator!? Jsharris...now you got me worried...if you don't mind me asking, what planning related conditions did you have?

Ian We got prices pretty much nailed down....apart from the foundations!! And as this can seem to vary by many thousands we want clarification of this cost...it could be the difference between building in May 2020 or having to wait, or going ahead with the solar power system or having to wait. We have a set cash budget for the core, shell and roof that we will not deviate from...think I will take Pro Dave's advice and look at getting an engineer.

Ian Mid Wales, and if we bought the land and it was straightforward we wouldn't use our solicitor, but like I said..lots of other legal stuff goes with it.

Pro Dave Yep...we got springs alright! But we think the problem will be solved when the field above us has a dodgy drainage system sorted out, also another reason for the woodland..to suck up water as well as fuel woodburner! So regarding the engineer, would he be able to complete groundworks also or are they purely advisory?

Big Neil.. It's part of an inherited farm and very complicated. Family farm left to two members of the family. Neither want to sell, neither in a position to buy the other out. Fortunately very good relationship and agreement made. We will take the parcel of land and hopefully build, but we need to secure planning permission to have this work. Subsequently, all planning applications will be made on our behalf by our solicitor because there's all sorts of other legal stuff that goes with it. Three big fields, hoping to build in one as off grid as we can be and plant 1.5-2 acres of woodland for coppicing, other fields kept as grazing.

Sue... I know what your saying..we had terrible trouble getting costs for windows and doors..they want to come out and measure to give a price but we have nothing to measure yet, but we know exactly what we want and what sizes they will be. We persevered and found a company we were happy with who did give us a quote based on our measurements, on the understanding that they will come out and measure themselves when we are ready to install. We just needed a ball park figure to work with, we are not in the position where we can just wing it. The thing is we will need windows, and now that company is going to get our business, we won't compare prices we will just use them because they have already been helpful, the same will probably go for anyone that estimates the build.

Thank you Ian for the reply When you say the planning permission set the location, I thought they would go by the site plan we submit..which is why we need to know if the location we choose in the field will be within costs for foundations. This is a cash build, we are not intending to have any loans, mortgages or credit card debt and so we must know as precisely as possible what the costs will be before. Are you saying the planning people will tell us where we can build? Never done this before so all advice gratefully received.

Hello, I joined minutes before you and I can already answer someone's question!? We are looking to build a small 2 bed bungalow 10m x 8.5m. The costs we have at the moment total app £46000.00. This covers foundations ( top end estimate as we might have problems) cavity walls with block interior and sandstone exterior, internal block walls, windows, roof with concrete tiles, guttering etc. This is WITHOUT labour costs, just materials and does not cover the interior. Also, we have not factored in gas or electric mains connection cos we can't have them, and no drains connection cos we are fitting our own septic tank and soakaway. Obviously depends on the size of the home your building and the materials you choose, but hopefully this might help a bit.

Hello...new to this site, just at the early stages of a build in a field in Wales, 12 acre plot on a hill above the snow line. Site is accessible by a hardcore track. We are just getting our plans ready to be submitted but we are making a few amendments, and we have a concern about the type of foundations required. We have e mailed a builder several days ago, requesting a build quote and some advice on where to site the build regarding the foundations, and had no response. We registered with RatedPeople and got one response..from a landscape gardener. We need this advice before we submit our site plan. We have planned to have a main contractor for the core, shell and roof, and we will arrange everything else from the first fix onward. But we are now wondering whether to have a specialist ground worker for the foundations, then find a good brickie for the blocks and stone, then find a roofer. We also want quotes on labour only, as we will need to get the materials from the roadside to the site using tractors, and we want more control over price and VAT claim. Has anyone done this using separate contractors for everything? Cheers.