NeverEnoughCake

Thank you all for your opinions.

EpsilonGreedy Thanks for your input. Though I find your reasoning also faulty. The average life of solar panels is 25 years. Say we have 4 lithium batteries, 2 controller systems and two generators in that time. Going by what we have chosen that comes to approx 18k The average UK electric bill is £49. Month, our connection quote was 7k, assuming meter cost, digger fuel, stone dust, conduit etc for trench at 1k that comes to approx 23k over 25 years. Obviously we would have to account for generator fuel, but also assume that the cost of new solar equipment will drop in price and gain power efficiency. I imagine grid electricity charges will only continue to rise over the coming years. I can understand the lithium battery issue, but I understand that as they are now becoming a major problem with regards to the first electric car batteries coming to the end of their life, advances are being made to prolong their use in other ways. We are not swayed by politics, just by our own instinct for what is right for us. We feel this is the way forward, the more people invest in off grid alternatives the faster the technology will move.

Thanks ed It is the hair shirt way for us..try what we think suits us, alter it if we can if it doesn't. Have to pop off to deal with horse faecal matter and farrier Thanks all.

Alexphd Definitely not a major..we have a digger and my partner could do it, but it's the principle. Dig our own trench, get our own stone dust, conduit and warning tape and fill the trench back up again..and pay 7k for a couple of days labour and some cable. For us it wasn't the way we wanted to go.

Christine 25k.!!!!! Did you have to dig your own trench as well? I feel your caravan pain, we have been in ours for six years! But we did have an underground cable from the farmhouse because we knew it would be a long term thing. Each to their own, but we have decided to do the off grid self sufficient thing and we know we will have to dramatically change the way we do things, but it will be worth it just to be where we are. Of course you are right, electricity is a basic need but you can also keep your needs basic. Perhaps caravan living is a good way of deciding how little you really require or how much you really miss. We have been using a composting toilet for six years...our biggest dream is a flushing loo.!

Thanks JS and ED As previously said, we tussled with this topic for a long time. We are totally confused by the numerous forums, articles etc for solar power. And to be honest, now just bored of thinking about it. We calculated based on our usage and hours of sun using several sites that ALL told us we would need 4 panels!! We are going to go with 7. Frankly, it doesn't matter how many panels you have if there is no sun there is no power. We accept this, and it is why we will have a battery and generator to try and see us through those times. We have no choice, we are not going to be grid connected. Our approach will be use as little power as needed, rather than try to increase power to meet our needs. I am home all day and so can vacuum, use washing machine etc during peak production times. We have no problem sitting by the woodburner by candlelight on a cold winters night, in fact we will probably do that even if we do have power, so long as we can keep our fridge and freezer going overnight. Having said that we could probably ditch the freezer if need be. Our electrical needs: Phone/tablet charger ( 1 hour a day) TV (couple of hours a day at the weekend) Hairdryer( 3 times week) Vacuum (1 hour a week) Washing machine ( 4 times a week) Toaster (1 hour a week) will use gas oven in winter fridge Small chest freezer. Kettle (1 hour a day) will switch to gas kettle in the winter. LED lighting. We will start of with the kit I mentioned previously, with the knowledge that we can add panels/batteries if we need to. On winter days we will use a small generator to charge battery in the morning, and see how much a trickle feed from the solar manages throughout the day. As I said in a previous post, we take a chance that solar power will keep advancing and we can upgrade our system as and when it does. For anyone out there embarking on off grid, can I suggest you take a look at Maximus Ironthumper on you tube. He is very informative and interesting to watch.

We have tussled with this issue for a long time. We would have, in all fairness, connected to the grid for electricity, but we were quoted £7000.00 and we had to dig our own trench! This was money we would never have got back, and we would then be paying them for electricity for the rest of our lives. For about the same cost we can install our solar kit, and never pay another electric bill. At the moment it is still fairly new technology that is advancing all the time, so we take a chance that in the future when things need replacing the prices will have come down a fair bit and they will generate more power. We can adapt things as and when new things develop. Our ideal would probably have been a hydro system, but with no stream actually running past the property it's not an option. Domestic wind turbines aren't suitable because we either have a slight breeze, or its blowing a gale and they would just switch off. We accept that power will be an issue over winter, but so long as the fridge keeps running that's ok. Cosy nights by candlelight with a good book and the woodburner going will see us through. We chose a mixture of wood, solar and gas so that we had options should anything fail. We originally thought of roof mounting the panels, but changed our mind. Most people want a south facing property, but ours will face east because that's where the view is. So we thought about a ground array, but not for long cos they look awful. We have settled on a car port roof, which will face south, and will work for any future electric cars we get, but unless they start making 4x4 pick ups I don't think it will be any time soon.!! Thank you all for your advice, I'm off now to find a builder to scribble some prices for foundations on a fag packet? Will be back with update or request for more info.

EpsilonGreedy Here goes.. Windows and doors 7.5k Roof and insulation 6.5k Blocks and ties 3.7k Lintels 1.5k Sandstone 7.2k Mortar and plasticiser 1.3k Foundations 12k? Wall insulation 700.00 Stone cills 1k Surecav cavity system 3k Scaffold, skip, portaloo..1.5k This is materials only, and does not include LABOUR or legal costs. Does not include site insurance cost or plant hire. Does not include ANY mains connections.

Pulham down Thanks for that....we are kind of looking at one hurdle at a time...we want costs first...if we can't afford to do it the way we want why bother applying for planning permission. Planning problems will be overcome when they arise....but PMA..we won't have any!!!! If we do then we'll deal with it.

Hello Jack We will In deed be installing a gas boiler. We are living in a caravan at the moment, and we have managed with the tiny LPG boiler for showering, and all hot water needs, and we have decided to install one in the house. Worcester/Bosch do a little one that is more powerful than the one we are currently using and we think it will be fine. So its LPG GAS cooker and hot water, solar power, and woodburner for heat. That's alot of power you have! We are low users..about 2000kwh a year! Going with 7 x 365 LG neon mono panels, Victron easisolar48/3000/70-50-230v-c/w integral mppt charge controller, BYD -B-PLUSL 2.56 kWh 48v lithium battery...any thoughts?

Js I see your point Firstly, we will be self sufficient for energy via solar, battery and back up generator, so we will be using our own power for the washing machine, which will of course be used when the solar is at it's most productive time of the day. Secondly, with regards to the water, we need more of it, not just another way of storing it. The original spring is actually a powerful flow, but during very dry periods it turns muddy and barely runs out of the tap. It has only ever served the main farm and will now have to stretch to two properties. If the stream running through the property dries up, which happens usually every summer at some point, then the spring also becomes the main source of water for the animals as well. So as you can see, it's very important that we gain additional water.

Js Rainwater needed because we will be sharing original farm water supply with other party. They are a family who will use more. We will of course fit filtering and cleaning processes before we use it, even though it won't be for drinking. We would use rainwater for everything, but legally you can't use it for showering and drinking. We don't do much in the way of cold washing in the machine....hot wash because my partner has a manual job, and we live on a farm. Bird faecal matter is the least of our faecal matter worries!!?

Js Blimey! Ok..think some of those things will relate to us. With regards to the stone, we have specified the stone, from a local quarry that much of the surrounding buildings and local town are constructed from, will they need to have samples even though it's the go to stone of the area? Landscaping..we have a detailed plan of the site with positions of new woodland, orchard, garden, paddock, fences, stone walling and gravel driveway ( which may move about a bit in the final submission re foundations) All these things will be completed but not immediately, were you given a time scale for completion of landscaping? With regards to the water issues, not quite the same as you, but can you or anyone else help? We are fitting a water harvesting system to the roof to supply toilet, washing machine, animals and garden. We will tap into an existing spring water supply for everything else. We in theory have no need for drains to channel away rainwater, however, should we need to would we be able to run a pipe to remove excess into a lower drainage ditch, which in turn runs down to a ditch in the road and into a storm drain?

Patp Definitely get some sort of heating. We have tried several types of storage. Previously, during a house renovation, we put everything in a big yellow storage facility. Stuff was secure and dry, but we hired such a large unit that the costs were considerable because we used it for 6 months. At the moment, we are like you living in a caravan because we sold our property. We gave away most of the stuff we knew we wouldn't need because of downsizing, but the remainder is stored in a barn. It's not good! White goods are fine..but if your thinking of upholstery, or mattresses etc cover it well and keep away from damp. I suspect your things will be better off than ours in a modern garage compared to a ropey old barn though!! In summary, if costs allowed, I would opt for a storage facility.

Ian, sue, jsharris Ian...costs 46k shell and core (allowing 12k for foundations s?) 33k interior fit out not including furniture..these are costs for materials only and do not include LABOUR. Sue..as mentioned we feel comfortable with the solicitor. There are many other legal things to take into consideration. We inherited a business between two family members, division of property, change of land usage etc. We are having plans drawn up to our spec by a pro who will forward copies to us and the solicitor, and our solicitor has in fact suggested we also use a planning consultant. She is a rural solicitor well heeled in the trials and tribulations of farming/land/inheritance stuff. It is good to know you have faith in your neighbour?also, regarding the windows, we were invited to the showroom at an appointed time, given coffee, shown examples of doors, frames, colour options. Choose locks, handles and obscured glass design, given time frames, and at no point was a "fag packet" used..just a calculator!? Jsharris...now you got me worried...if you don't mind me asking, what planning related conditions did you have?