DazRave

Installation Update So as my previous post had mentioned, I ended up going down the MCS approved route. After starting the installation yesterday then getting hit by heavy rain today, the install team are picking back up next week to finish everything off. I've not actually seen the progress with my own eyes yet as I'm living off site, however I've attached a photo sent to me by my Missus who passed in her car after the first day. So what did I end up with? 8x Black 420w PV panels (mounted 'in-roof') 3.6kW Hybrid invertor 8.2kWh battery Including the paperwork, registering and fitting it cost me just shy of £10k. **Insert Gasp Here** Yeah, I made that noise too. Although we've not finished the installation yet, let me just explain a few reasons why I went down this route and what I'd do if I did it again in the future. In the end I was hit by 2 storms during our build whilst already 2 months behind schedule. To make matters worse the roof installation got pushed along so much that it was split in half by the festive period with absolutely dire weather on top of the storms. My original plan was for my roofer to install the trays and for myself (with my electricians help) to install the panels. My electrician would then crack on with the other parts of the install that are inside the house. The problem is the timelines were all completely knocked out of sync. I didn't have the time to do my part due to work commitments and my electrician isn't due for another week on site. The roof, while exposed and not even felted yet, was then battered in the storms (A bit of wood nearly speared itself through my neighbours car!). So, I was forced to get a company involved which removed the burden from my other tradesmen who were already quite literally under the weather. Would I do it differently? Absolutely. Yes. I've still got a sour taste in my mouth because I'd have been able to save around £3k from my calculations if I was to do it all myself. I'd have then used that money to install a immersion tank to pre-warm water going through my boiler and reduce my gas bills (something I've planned space in for as a future upgrade). It was a tough pill to swallow going down this route but we're nearly there now I suppose! Hopefully these posts help others in the future much like everyone's replies have helped me. If I remember, I'll be back with an update once the system is all up and running to give any final verdicts!

Update time I've surprised myself and gone down the MCS route! I was sitting on the fence for absolutely ages, had done an absolute load of research but ultimately my time had become too important recently (Both myself and my better half both run businesses). So, after a lot of haggling (to keep within budget) I've gone for a system provided by an installer for a price I can pallet. It's not installed yet (so far, only the on site survey has been completed). For the ease of life I'm losing out on a bit of battery capacity if I were to DIY but other than that I've ticked a lot of the boxes I wanted to tick. I will, however, be back to update everyone on how much it cost me, what I got and why etc as I'm keen to give back where I can to help others in the future when searching. I'm waiting on the first fix for now!

As far as I'm aware, Octopus Energy are the only providers right now with a scheme in place to offer buying back energy from you without the need to have an MCS certificate, yes.

Update Ok, so I've now had two separate MCS installers rehash the exact same sentence to me as soon as I told them that I'm thankful for their time but I'm going to roll the dice with a none-MCS installation. In a nutshell, what they have both claimed is that 'all' insurance companies won't cover you if you don't have an MCS certificate and you also can't sell your house either without one. I have spoken to my insurance and other than it being up to building regs and letting them know the total value of the system they don't care. I also can't find a shred of proof that these claims are true other than on the MCS website itself and from other MCS installers online all of whom seem to copy+paste the same paragraphs. Is there anyone else more knowledgeable than myself here who could throw some light on this solar issue! (Pun intended)

Another quick update I've been through all of the terms and conditions and it looks like I'm allowed to apply for two of Octopus' standard outgoing tariffs, the Fixed and the Agile. So, I mean, this is absolutely fine considering I won't have MCS. I've also bolted on the Solar panels etc so they can be signed off by building regs surveyor at the same time the rest of the extension is done. This cost me £250 ex vat as an add on. They've requested the details of the solar panels etc that I use, which of course I will have soon. They then can update the notice to the council with the new description of works, or something along those lines! Next Steps The Octopus application process requires DNO registration. My current planned setup requires me to only inform the DNO after install (rather than before) and so I don't actually have this yet. Bummer, as I can't yet progress further with the application. Does anybody know if you can just register with the DNO in advance, even though you don't have to do it in advance, or does it not quite work like that?

Update So, it looks like I've been accepted through the first stage of the Octopus no-MCS. However... "The Department for Energy Security and Net Zero has informed us that we are not to offer the regulated SEG tariff to anyone who does not have an MCS certified install. We are only able to offer our own export tariffs." I need to do a bit more reading on what this actually means for me, but on the surface of things it means a much much cheaper solar installation and still having the ability to sell at least something back. There's a load of terms and conditions sent over that I'll filter through this weekend as I want to move fast on this. In other news I had a typical follow up phone call from one of the MCS approved installers I had a quote from. I was honest and explained the reason why I hadn't made a decision yet. After explaining to him how I was exploring the DIY/Octopus route, it completely blew his mind. I could hear the cogs winding around in his head trying to comprehend what I'd just said to him and how this would effect his business. I felt bad at the time, but in hindsight now, if he's an expert in this field surely he should understand quite relevant news regarding it?!

If it wasn't for the Octopus changes, I wouldn't have considered MCS whatsoever. It's funny, because of Octopus again, I'm now back to looking at the DIY route! Just crossing my fingers that I might be able to save money now and then shortly sign up to Flux anyway without MCS.

Thanks for the heads up. Am I right in thinking a faster water flow will also help with running more than 1 hot tap and/or shower etc at the same time? We have always had this problem but our Boiler is pretty beefy and my gas engineer said it's mainly down to the thin water feed into the property and the fact we're on a hill. EDIT: A quick google search of my Intergas ECO RF 36 combi boiler and it looks like I can pre-heat on them. I'm just not sure if my specific model is accepted yet.

That was a great read, thanks for posting and sharing. Your findings have given me food for thought and I've also added some notes to my ever growing project file. One thing I hadn't heard of before is using a pre-heater BEFORE a combi boiler. I'm going to have to deep dive into that a bit more for sure.

I assume he's trying to heat the water even in the dullest of days? So it's less about the max output and more about bringing the min output up higher. Surely.

As a pre-warning... this will be long. So there's another TL:DR at the bottom to save time! Let's get started So I'm back and I'm now slightly more informed than a few weeks ago when I initially created this thread. I'm writing this because these posts can often be super helpful for someone like myself. Feel free to read and share any helpful advice but please refrain from opinions which will quite clearly just trigger people. One thing I have learnt on this journey for definite is that everyone's requirements are extremely different. So please discuss the differences between options etc but let's keep it civil, informative and to be honest, fun! To clarify my objectives here, I'm looking to reduce (or better, eliminate) my monthly bills by investing now while we have the capital. I'm not looking for an amazing ROI in the shortest time possible. We're building a large extension onto the house with the intention of staying here to raise a family for the next 15+ years, minimum. So here's where I am at now: I crunched an absolute ton of data (basically uploaded 2 years worth of half hourly meter readings into ChatGPT). I manged to work out loads of interesting habits such as common peak times, highest/lowest usage days and highlight other weird anomalies. I'm pretty certain approx. 10 to 12kwh of solar storage will do me justice I'm looking at around 8 to 12, 405w, solar panels In-roof systems look pretty straight forward I've had some quotes back and for the system I was looking at from an MCS qualified supplier/installer we're looking at £12k A DIY approach, which also includes a bonus 300L solar hot water cylinder, would be approx. £6k Granted, this doesn't include fitting But, some of which I'll do myself with my electrician. The roofers, who are installing sky lights too, have agreed to install the GSE in-roof frames for the solar panels while they are up there tiling Finger in the air slightly, let's say unforeseen costs plus installation help from my on site trades is around £3k, then the final DIY route is now only a few grand less than the MCS approved route but still less than my initial £10k 'max budget' Since my original post, Octopus announced they were scraping the requirement for an MCS and I originally thought I'd struck gold on the timing! However, news articles everywhere would lead you to believe this is a done and dusted decision by them. However, after talking to them directly myself, it's actually just a trail on a very select number of customers. damn. I'm hopeful they will still roll this out fully and I've signed up to be a guinea pig regardless. fingers crossed. G98, 99, 100 etc forms are kind of confusing.. it's still not clear which or what I need if I never ever intend to sell back to the grid but I'm assuming the worst in all my planning for now and I'll work backwards from there There's a requirement that I'm still yet to even bring into this and that's a UFH system. We've not decided on wet or electric yet and to be honest what I decide here might then have a knock on effect to this What's next? I'm not actually sure at this point! I do need to make a decision pretty quickly as we're getting close to needing the new roof, which, was the entire point of all of this. DIY route CON: Prevents me from selling back to the grid and offsetting bills CON: Potentially much shorter warranties on some of the cc when not installed by someone deemed 'approved' CON: Dealing with more moving parts and more trades here, I've got to do more self learning and anything could go wrong at my expense PRO: I can throw in a hot water cylinder to offset the gas usage (topped up by my gas boiler when there's not enough free energy) This actually has another unexpected and positive side effect, which is better water pressure! To which we have extremely poor pressure in the area and it's always annoyed us PRO: I mean, cheaper, but only slightly I guess PRO: From what I can gather, all the components/materials are either equal in quality or superior in some way. e.g 2 modular batteries total over 10kwh whereas I was quoted for a single battery at about 9kwh 'Approved' MCS route CON: Easy one to start with. Cost. It's about £4 to 5k more like-for-like It's approx. £2k more when comparing to the DIY route that's got a hot water cylinder CON: Although I'll have the MCS, if Octopus roll out 'no-MCS' fully then surely 'selling back' rates will only ever start to be less and less beneficial anyway? Might be a long winded assumption of course but it would piss me off regardless CON: The solution isn't quite as flexible and specific to my needs Granted, this could be due to the installer preferring one brand over another or perhaps a lack of understanding of my requirements and could be changed. PRO: Easy peasy I wouldn't actually really have to do much as they'll take care of everything PRO: I can sell back to the grid, bringing me closer to that low/zero bills desire PRO: Longer warranties on some of the components used when installed by an approved installer Worth pointing out I don't know what the standard warranties are on some of the parts, as it might only actually be a year longer etc so not that much of a positive! And breath. Sorry about all that but thanks for reading! Too Long, Didn't Read: I still want to reduce bills with solar panels and batteries long term. Even looking at hot water cylinders now. DIY route is cheaper but of course has cons like no grid selling. MCS-approved route costs more but offers convenience. Still deciding as Octopus's no-MCS plan is uncertain.

Wow, well, thank you in advance if that's the case! I had tried to find a bit of a glossary just to explain the acronyms and terminology first but couldn't really find anything that made sense and it just started to frustrate me, so I took to here.

@SteamyTea - In a past life I was a product designer and full stack engineer (I sort of sell kitchens now, but that's a long story 😂) so I've got a bit of an automated home and there's automation built into the design of the extension too. The majority of devices that consume the most are trackable, the only exceptions were the extremely old appliances in the kitchen (I say this in a past tense, as a digger cut my old kitchen in half last week and popped a hole in the side of the house!) so to track the kitchen appliances I used a couple of formulas to tell me when electricity spiked historically based on Octopus Energy half hour meter readings. So we always found that we used the most amount of electricity from 8pm onwards (disregarding short term spikes such as half an hour with the oven/hob on) the long duration peaks come when I've got my high powered pc spinning and the missus is next to me using hers as we often catch up work at night. I guess this is also backed up by Octopus energy too, which claims our busiest time is between 7.30pm and 8pm most days (which is skewed slightly towards the time when we cook as bear in mind we did have extremely inefficient and old electrical appliances). It's interesting too, as Thursdays are the evenings we're most likely both in the home office. It's also the day Octopus says our peak is slightly later, at around 8.30pm and 9pm. A quick look and we're consuming quite a lot of energy from 8.30pm which drops slightly at midnight (when the missus usually retires) and drops down to middle of the day sort of levels when I've called it a night in the early hours. On top of this, we use the washing machine at night too since we're home anyway and the Octopus rates are cheaper, but this of course isn't every night. I've no idea. We've been told they are investigating the cuts on and off for the last few years. We'll go a while without them and they'll claim it's sorted, then they trigger again. Either way, what does an 'islanding' system consist of? Does a solar and battery system that's off grid not already achieve this? Additionally, if I'm not interested in selling back to the grid do I even need permission from my local DNO? I'm after a dummies guide on a lot of this stuff, remember. Gotcha. I appreciate that insight. EDIT: A quick look at the PC and it consumes between 500-650w if I'm rendering some 3Ds for an hour or so. So between the server, two PCs, a few PC monitors and a TV on in the background, it's around 1.2 to 1.5kw and we'd sometimes be working for at least 4 hours in the evenings, especially on a Thursday. For the record if anyone is interested: I use a home server running dockerised Home Assistant and Node-RED containers for the dashboards and automation. I also run a mainly wireless zigbee and MQTT network for all the nodes and devices across the network to communicate. Thankfully everything within the extension will be mostly 'home-run' hard wired and for everything else I'll be moving over to Matter (once it's rolled out a little more over the coming months).

I just wanted to quickly thank you for your post. I'm not really interested in who's system is better and why because they are not me. I'd rather get a dummies guide on what things do and how they work together. So yeah, thank you. Your post gave me plenty to think about!

So, this is exactly our intentions. We're already on Octopus and have a cheaper rate at night which is Ideal as unlike the norm (well, from what I gathered reading everyone's posts) we use most of our energy at night. We're extending the house with the intention of staying in it to bring up a family. So the plan is 15 years or more and unless we both hit the jackpot or either of our businesses do extremely well I don't see that changing. ROI isn't massively important. I think I can budget for somewhere between £8-10k for a solar system with battery but that's not to say i actually want to spend that much (I got the feeling a few people just thought I wanted to throw money at a problem). Ideally, we want predictable, stable and low as possible monthly bills for the next 5 years at least while we start a family after our home is soon to be big enough. I've a lot of electronics which also includes two high end PCs as well as a home server which are usually on in the evenings and sometimes in the daytime, but not often. As a side note, we've been in the house for about 5 years now and we've had frequent power outages from a couple of minutes to half an hour at a time. Usually we get these in the summer months, a couple times a month. I know this because my server and network are knocked offline and records it's downtime accurately. A small UPS on the server helps shut it down safely but it would be a dream if it could just stay online without a hiccup instead! (Don't ask why we get them, the entire area is still trying to figure this out). So, to jump back on topic about being new to all of this: Am I right in thinking a battery can only output X amount at any one time, so switching on an electric induction hob or oven would more than likely trigger the switch to use grid energy again and the main reason for a battery is to power all the smaller constantly used devices around the home, such as for LEDs, TVs, modems, charging phones etc etc?