James Frome

Thanks Sparrowhawk - what spec would you say the links I provided are?

I agree - next step is to get some other tenders. It is a bit of a game out there with tenders (as in - is the tender authentic or designed to hook you in), but nevertheless, seems like a wise next move.

It is £1.3m based on moderate spec. I think it is a law of diminishing returns with spec as it is a maisonette with a basement flat underneath. I think we haven't held back with the spec, but we haven't been outrageous (please counter me on this with my links if you disagree).

The house is hooked up to gas. My concern is now that we could probably get within budget together, but to see a quote like this puts me on the defence - it certainly doesn't seem like mates rates, and to come in with a quote like this is so far from being mates rates that it is quite offensive. It is hard to win back that trust now (even if he is just giving us a worst case scenario, which he isn't!)

I appreciate this - I agree, this is a big warning sign and one to be listened to.

I completely agree. We f***** up here. It was 42k plus VAT.

This is all incredibly helpful so far. I really appreciate the feedback and the guidance. We are reading your thoughts carefully and reflectively. In terms of the value of the house, it would be around £1,300,000 with medium spec. The average price per square metre on the street is £10,000 but this may have gone down with the recent movements in the property market. We told him our budget was £550,000 including VAT (taking the total cost including architect fees, stamp duty etc. to £1,150,000). I think we are going medium / medium high spec (but please tell me given the below). With the size of the house at 122 square metres, this would allow £4500 per square metre. We are only going medium / medium high spec as we plan on living in the house for the rest of our lives (in theory!). We don't, however, want to be doing this at the risk of paying it off for the rest of our lives! Some links below of items (please tell me where this sits on the spec level?): - https://www.bigbathroomshop.co.uk/milano-elizabeth-brushed-gold-traditional-thermostatic-shower-with-wall-mounted-shower-head-1-outlet-86281 - https://www.lussostone.com/taps-c3/celeste-2-hole-traditional-kitchen-tap-brushed-gold-p4675 - https://www.bigbathroomshop.co.uk/milano-elizabeth-traditional-wall-mounted-crosshead-3-tap-hole-basin-mixer-tap-choice-of-finish-82086 The kitchen is largely British Standard.

Hi all, We are renovating a house we have bought in London (NW5). At the time, we thought we paid a respectable price for it (£600,000), but renovation costs are taking us WAY over our worst case scenario (£1,200,000). We have also paid architects to draw up the designs (£50,000 including VAT), so that is a significant additional cost (I realise that a mistake was probably made here in how premium we went). The house is 1300 square foot, or 122 square metres. We estimate the house would be worth around £1,300,000 once renovated. I have attached a Rightmove link to showcase the condition it is in (bad): https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114544205#/?channel=RES_BUY My sense is this quote is outrageously high (even with the current inflationary trend in mind), but I am interested to hear where in particular the costs are outrageously high. Any insights would be massively appreciated. According to this quote, we would end up spending around £1,350,000-£1,400,000 on the house, which given the amount of effort and the starting price (which seems very fair), means we must have f***** up badly somewhere along the way. In addition, we are subject to the 5% VAT rule, which we initially thought gave us further mitigation with financial risk (alongside the starting price). The context also adds an additional layer as the building company is run by a friend of mine, who has assured me that he will take a lower profit margin that usual (i.e. mates rates). His company is premium, but he has worked on a number of friends' houses and I know he would do an amazing job. However, the pricing is so far above where I would expect it to be, that I am having doubts about if it is feasible to continue with them. If anyone has any insights into the quote (attached), it would be incredibly valuable. Thank you so much for any wisdom / guidance 🙏 James 1Modbury Gardens - Cost Plan R0.pdf

Thanks for the response The house is totally derelict with points of failure in the roof which means during bad weather, water does 'drift' into the house. We are renovating the house in around three / four months once we get planning permission. 1. I am thinking of cheap ways to contain the water entering the house. I was quoted £1300 today to lay some felt under the tiles as a temporary measure. This is quite a lot of money for something that will be ripped up when the house is renovated. 2. A gas powered heater could work. I am trying to minimise further wood rot. 3. We don't have a functioning fireplace. I was going to get a moisture meter to monitor my progress. Would something like this suffice? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brennenstuhl-1298680-Moisture-Detector-MD/dp/B003CSNV2Q/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3A3BP92540CBZ&keywords=moisture+meter&qid=1667846741&sprefix=moisture+meter%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-5

Hello We have bought a house which has had water running through it for a few years (through gaps in the roof). As a result, there is a lot of water-induced damage and rot. We want to dry out the house as best as we can before beginning works in a few months. Does anyone recommend a device or devices to best achieve this result? The house is around 1100 square feet. Thank you 🙏

We are waiting on planning permission (due in a few weeks). I will update here when I have some further quotes ...

This is very helpful to hear recent stories / experiences around pricing 🙏 It makes sense to me that materials will drop in price. Interest rates are so high now that it is quite intimidating to be borrowing larger amounts of money. Equally, I can understand why insulation would still be popular ... Please keep the anecdotes coming ...

Thanks everyone for your responses 🙏

Hello We are doing a house renovation which will involve predominantly new materials for everything in the house. What is the best place / information site to get a sense of how prices are changing for materials in the UK? Do people think that if the housing market cools, the price of materials will go down? We are worried about the cost of materials. Best, James 🙏

After speaking with HMRC, and looking at clause 8.4 of VAT Notice 708, it states: "Other than installing goods that are building materials, you can also reduce rate any works of repair, maintenance (such as redecoration), or improvement (such as the construction of an extension or the installation of double glazing) carried out to the fabric of the dwelling." From this, I gather that an extension and loft conversion connected with the main building will be at the reduced rate of VAT. Please advise if this is incorrect? The other interesting part that isn't entirely clear, is around the garden. The garden needs renovating as well. There is concrete on the floor that needs taking up as well as work on getting rid of overgrown plants. How would the garden works function with VAT? I can see on the DIY Housebuilders Scheme that turf is at the reduced rate, as are plants and trees (if detailed on a landscaping scheme approved by planning permission). Any insights into the garden labour / goods with regards to VAT would be appreciated 🙏 This section from VAT Notice 708 may provide some insight: 3.3.4 Work closely connected to the construction of the building Subject to paragraph 3.3.6, your work is closely connected to the construction of the building when it either: (a) allows the construction of the building to take place, such as when you: demolish existing buildings and structures as part of a single project to construct a new building or buildings in their place (the granting of a right to remove materials is not the supply of demolition services and is standard-rated) provide or improve an access point to a building site to allow deliveries to be made carry out ground works (including the levelling and drainage of land) as part of the process of constructing a new building or buildings in its place provide site clearance or ‘builders’ clean’ services secure the site (b) produces works that allow the building to be used, such as works in connection with the: means of providing water and power to the building (this can extend to the work required to make the connection to the nearest existing supply) means of providing within the development site access to the building (for example roads, footpaths, parking areas, drives and patios) means of providing security (such as walls, fences and gates - but note that most electrical appliances are always standard-rated, further information is in paragraph 13.6) provision of soft landscaping within the site of a building (such as the application of topsoil, seeding with grass or laying turf) The planting of shrubs, trees and flowers would not normally be seen as being ‘closely connected…’ except to the extent that it’s detailed on a landscaping scheme approved by a planning authority under the terms of a planning consent condition. This does not include the replacement of trees and shrubs that die, or become damaged or diseased. It’s not possible to produce an exhaustive list of services that are closely connected to the construction of the building, and each case not included in (a) and (b) must be looked at on its own merits. You need not be the main contractor in order for your supplies to be considered to be ‘works closely connected…’. You can be a subcontractor or another contractor.

In terms of question two, do you have any initial thoughts or advice? "The second question revolves around the proportion of works that is eligible for this VAT reduction. Given the state of disrepair, we are planning to rebuild the current roof and construct a loft conversion; we are also planning to knock down the outrigger on the ground floor and rebuild it (but bigger with a small extension; this is all connected to the main building). How does this work with VAT? Is the proportion of the original building at a reduced rate of VAT, with the additional square footage at 20% VAT? Or is there an alternative formula for this given my context (property has not been lived in for over 10 years)?" Thank you!

Hi Temp, I emailed the council for an empty living proof earlier today; it is been processed now (the property was delisted from council tax in 2007, so should be straight forward). In terms of VAT and rental, that is good to be very aware of - thank you. In terms of CIL, I had never heard of that. Fortunately, I expect the loft conversion and the extension to only add 50sqm max, so I think we are ok 😀

Hi Temp, That makes sense to me; I understand now. I have seen the "certificate" template on the HMRC website, so can use that as additional persuasive firepower for the building contractors. Thanks to you both 🙏

Thanks for this Andrew. Can I just confirm that I am ok to do the "reduced rate of VAT at source"? (i.e. 5% for labour and materials). The line above "You should pay 20% VAT on materials purchased and the reduced rate of 5% VAT to contractors" has thrown me a little - I am assuming that means that you only pay 20% on materials that you purchase yourself (i.e. if the contractor purchases it, it is ok to log as 5%)?? 🙏

Thanks Andrew. So as I now understand it, all works and services through the build will be charged at 5% VAT (assuming it is done by the contracted builders). After the works are complete, I will use the DIY Housebuilders Scheme Claim Form to get a VAT refund on that 5% (assuming all the paperwork is in order). Does that sound about right? Thank you!

Hi everyone, Firstly, I want to say thank you for looking at my post. I hope to learn from you all and contribute myself in time. I have spoken to HMRC a number of times, but I am getting conflicting answers (probably due to my explanation!), and I can't seem to find clarity for myself after reading VAT Notice 708 thoroughly. I recently purchased a property in London. This property has not been lived in for over ten years. I am planning to live in the property after the renovation works are complete. The renovation works are expected to be carried out by a contracted building team. 1. Am I eligible for VAT reduction to 0% or 5%? I am confident that I am eligible for the 5% rule to the appropriate works and materials given that the building has not been lived in for 10 years. However, I am unclear as to whether I am eligible for the 0% VAT - looking at Section 5 of Notice 708 ("Zero rating the sale of, or long lease in, non-residential buildings converted to residential use), I gather that if I was a property developer, I would be eligible for the 0% rule, assuming I sold the property after works were complete. As I am planning to live in the property after the renovation works, can I still get the 0% VAT? If so, would this be done on the go, or would it be done retrospectively through the DIY Housebuilders Scheme Claim Form (or is this only for new builds)? If the DIY Housebuilders Scheme is the appropriate path, would the building team charge 5% VAT originally, and then I claim back the 5% after works are completed? 2. The second question revolves around the proportion of works that is eligible for this VAT reduction (whether 0% or 5% / or maybe some is applicable at 0% and some is applicable at 5%?). Given the state of disrepair, we are planning to rebuild the current roof and construct a loft conversion; we are also planning to knock down the outrigger on the ground floor and rebuild it (but bigger). How does this work with VAT? Is the proportion of the original building at a reduced rate of VAT (whether 5% or 0%), with the additional square footage at 20% VAT? Or is there an alternative formula for this given my context? 3. Any other guidance or advice for navigating and optimising this process is also welcome 🙏 Thank you 😀 James