Internorm Fitting and how to get an ok weather tight resolution.

[alexo]

@ClairedM Also see Building regs approved document L, page 61 section 10, 10.3-10.6 on controlled fittings which includes windows and doors in existing dwellings.  10.3 a: units should be draught proofed.  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/662a2e3e55e1582b6ca7e592/Approved_Document_L__Conservation_of_fuel_and_power__Volume_1_Dwellings__2021_edition_incorporating_2023_amendments.pdf

 

Clearly your install has gaps all over the place and is not draught proofed entirely.  

 

As Craig said, if they won't budge you could get FENSA or Certass to look into it (but they take ages to do anything in my experience), and/or take legal action.

[ClairedM]

On 02/06/2024 at 22:21, alexo said:

How does one go about getting a professional inspection in a case like this?  Is there an equivalent of an independent snagging team such as New Home Quality Control but for Internorm window installs?  Or are you referring to getting it checked by FENSA or certass? Or a rep from Internorm?  Asking for a friend.

Good question. Did you find an answer?

[ClairedM]

On 02/06/2024 at 23:27, Kelvin said:

Do you have any pictures of what it all looked like before the installation? 

[ClairedM]

On 02/06/2024 at 23:27, Kelvin said:

Do you have any pictures of what it all looked like before the installation? 

[ClairedM]

The MD and the fitter came out yesterday and it was ok. But today I think I was too polite and just accepted what they said.

 

The large lift snd slide doors at the back. With the horrid gap underneath.

The end 60cm or so is just resting on the edge of the 6 floor boards. The floor board joist is about the same distance away and inline with the doors.

 

The MD and the fitter stamped on the floor there and said that it was solid. The fitter said that he was satisfied.

 

Is this correct?

Should the door be supported by brick or something for all its length? or part of it?

 

Given the threshold is up (see other thread . sorry I should have put it all in one place.) is the door just too short? 

(if it has been heigher then it would have rested on both inner and outer brick layers.

 

[ClairedM]

2nd thought post visit.

The front life and slide doors that rest on the old pvc/chip board ledge are also too short. Or there'd be no need for the ledge.

 

The fitter said that the new doors couldn't be on the floor as the concret was crumbled. ......So I had a look and its not. And the fitter wouldn't have known this when they did the measuring. 

 

And there is a continuous gap under the frame of the door. The gap is a gap with no supports. No fixing.

 

 

This cant be right.

Please send check me as I really doubt myself.

Edited June 4 by ClairedM

[ClairedM]

Cavity walls and expanding foam and plaster board.

 

Cavity wall breaching.

'All it is is plaster board' 

But surely this isn't right. They also said ;'that was how your walls where made.' 

But if the cavity is open and its edge is on the wooden frame of the Internorm would the damp/humidity of the cavity damage the frames?

 

[ClairedM]

Compriband Black foam and the wooden Internorm frames.

 

Around the outside of the the frames is the black foam. I see white lines that are the wooden frames.

The fitter says that 2mm of the wooden frame needs to be exposed to the exterior air/exposed so the frame can dry out.

 

Is this true?

[ClairedM]

and corner lower external edges of windows. Where the wedges are.

Is it 'ok' the fill the hole and cover the wedges with expanding foam and then cover with a sill?

 

If the foam isn't all the way around, will water just pool and track back at the wedges?

 

 

 

[alexo]

3 hours ago, ClairedM said:

Good question. Did you find an answer?

Craig’s response was ‘Fensa, if they are registered but you could also ask a reputable company or a 3rd party independent surveyor.’

[alexo]

3 hours ago, ClairedM said:

and corner lower external edges of windows. Where the wedges are.

Is it 'ok' the fill the hole and cover the wedges with expanding foam and then cover with a sill?

 

If the foam isn't all the way around, will water just pool and track back at the wedges?

 

 

 

What did they propose when they visited? Have they agreed ‘making good’ on the entire install?

 

It all looks terrible to me (fit and finish).  Not just in a fussy internorm passive ‘but I expected the fit to roughly match the airtightness of the windows’ way.  It looks so bad that if it is left as pictured they are contravening the basic building regs and you have a clear case against them.

 

And using your old plastic upvc door cill is screaming bodge job, regardless of any ‘making good’.

 

Make sure you put your complaint in writing by email as soon as poss if not already done. Include pics. See if they respond in writing. Do not accept any verbal contact from them. All responses in writing.
 

Then I would contact house insurance legal cover or credit card legal cover and lodge a claim. If you aren’t covered this way try citizens advice bereau.  

Also complain to Fensa or certass (check who they are registered with) and ask them to do an inspection. And complain to your Internorm rep.  The internorm rep will probably offer to come out and take a look (although beware these are salespeople and not surveyors/fitters as far as I’m aware).

 

I would also get an independent surveyor or window expert round to comment in a report.  However if you have legal cover they will do this for you. Any costs incurred you should be able to claim back if your legal case is successful.
 

 

Edited June 4 by alexo

[alexo]

And definitely don't pay them any more money!  I would also not let them back on site to do any making good either.  Wait till it's been inspected by someone else.  They might just try to cover up the dodgy fit with spray foam and trims.

[ClairedM]

On 04/06/2024 at 21:00, alexo said:

What did they propose when they visited? Have they agreed ‘making good’ on the entire install?

 

It all looks terrible to me (fit and finish).  Not just in a fussy internorm passive ‘but I expected the fit to roughly match the airtightness of the windows’ way.  It looks so bad that if it is left as pictured they are contravening the basic building regs and you have a clear case against them.

 

And using your old plastic upvc door cill is screaming bodge job, regardless of any ‘making good’.

 

Make sure you put your complaint in writing by email as soon as poss if not already done. Include pics. See if they respond in writing. Do not accept any verbal contact from them. All responses in writing.
 

Then I would contact house insurance legal cover or credit card legal cover and lodge a claim. If you aren’t covered this way try citizens advice bereau.  

Also complain to Fensa or certass (check who they are registered with) and ask them to do an inspection. And complain to your Internorm rep.  The internorm rep will probably offer to come out and take a look (although beware these are salespeople and not surveyors/fitters as far as I’m aware).

 

I would also get an independent surveyor or window expert round to comment in a report.  However if you have legal cover they will do this for you. Any costs incurred you should be able to claim back if your legal case is successful.
 

 

Thank you.

I;ve been in tears over this. 

After their visit I emailed Ecotec with my summary of their visit  'expanding foam to fill the gaps, wrap in Illbruch ME508 and cover with Aluminium sill.' 

I'm getting my shit together and going to to man up next week.

Thank you for your support.

C

 

[ClairedM]

@alexo How did you guess their solution!

 

[alexo]

53 minutes ago, ClairedM said:

Thank you.

I;ve been in tears over this. 

After their visit I emailed Ecotec with my summary of their visit  'expanding foam to fill the gaps, wrap in Illbruch ME508 and cover with Aluminium sill.' 

I'm getting my shit together and going to to man up next week.

Thank you for your support.

C

 

It is so stressful and upsetting isn’t it, I sympathise.

On the upside yours is so clearly wrong that you can hopefully get a resolution legally, even potentially replacement and get a good outcome. 
 

My one was so frustrating because it was bad but not so bad that it could be fought legally since I didn’t get passive fit written into my contract. So I am stuck with them as they are! 

[alexo]

Also just to mention, if you don’t have any luck with replacement and they end up making good on what is there, a lot of spray foam will be needed.

Ensure they are using an airtight window foam such as Illbruck FM330 gun grade. It’s readily and cheaply available online for next day delivery.
 

And don’t be afraid to hover over them to see what they do and what they are using if they do the making good.

Edited June 7 by alexo

[ClairedM]

@alexo Thank you