s2sap

Thanks all so in summary I would Use up more space pay more for roofing and founds save on a staircase Doesn't really make a case for it does it. If your design can be bungalow or 2 storey without impacting on your requirements a 2 storey home seems most effective

Thanks Ian that may be useful - have you used their services?

We have had to go back to the drawing board in relation to our house plans for various reasons and are now about to start the second revised design. We are looking at building a home approx 2000 sq feet and for the first time are considering building a bungalow as opposed to a two storey home. Assuming there are no space issues, planning issues or foundation issues affecting our choice has anyone considered the cost difference of a two storey home versus a bungalow. We want this design to be simple, staightforward and to keep build costs to a minimum. I understand there is additional roofing costs and additional foundation costs but are there perhaps also savings to be had with building a bungalow? Any views appreciated

Thanks for responses guys I will discuss this with plumber

I hope I can explain what I am looking for. We have an existing OFCH system which has 3 zones:- Downstairs (17 radiators) Upstairs (6 radiators) and Hot Water. All rads have traditional TRVs fitted. I want to be able to control individual room temperatures independently and remotely with a phone app. The Honeywell Evohome system looks like a good but expensive option. Expensive because of the number of radiators we have and that system requires one wifi TRV on each radiator which is driving cost up as each TRV can be around £50. As that system requires a TRV on each rad I thought that a wifi wall stat that controlled all rads in that room with wifi auto shut off valves would be a more cost effective sytem as some of our rooms have 4 rads in them. Anyone know of such a system or recommend something that might work

I have asked a local company to upgrade or replace our existing home alarm system which is 15 years old. I wanted one of the newer systems that would allow me to set and unset the alarm from my phone and be alerted if there were any activations etc on my phone. The company have suggested fitting a Pyronix wireless sytem from scratch in my home as the existing PIRs etc are so old, which is understandable. My concern is that I always assumed wireless systems were just for quick DIY installers - not professional installers. Am I wrong? Perhaps wireless has moved on as has all technology but I had assumed they would have recommended a wired system. Any thoughts?

I need to move a contact door alarm up abut 12 inches on the door frame and need to add a bit of cable to the existing alarm cable which is Red & Blue Joined : Black & Yellow Joined : Green Disconnected. The system is run by a 12v lorry battery. I need to fix this quickly but dont have similar cable. The closet type of cable I have to hand that I think would work is twin core lightweight 240v cable ( probably only 3 or 5 amp ) Would this be potential for joining to the existing alarm cable Thanks In Anticipation

Thank you for posting the link. However it really is beyond my interpretation. My eyes glazed over and I nearly fell backwards off the chair

I have done this decision to death and resurrected it many times There are several reasons why we are going LPG mainly initial capital outlay and potential length of stay in new property but not that reason alone - and we now need to make the LPG system as efficient as possible. We may change to ASHP in the future but as things stand right now its going to be LPG boiler so I need to figure out the right setup How do I do this - will a SAP calc be sufficient - if so I can upload one - if not where do I start?

There isn't - but through this thread I have concluded that I will prob not have any spare energy from the PV to heat an immersion in an UFH buffer so I would be heating any buffer with LPG rather than electric - and now trying to ascertain should I have a buffer for UFH or not if it is being heated by LPG boiler

But how would my setup compare to yours ie LPG

So if I go with a 4kw PV system that will probably not have any surplus to power an UFH buffer tank, what should I do with regards the heating system that will be an LPG boiler and UFH upstairs and downstairs. Whats the thinking on buffer tank or not for the heating ( as it probably wont have any input from PV ).

Yes I'd forgot about that thanks

Going with LPG boiler - no ASHP

OK then so if the maximum I will generate is about 17kwh per day in peak season and it would take 15kwh to replensish my 250L cylinder if empty I will probably be using most of my generated power heating the water and powering fridge freezers and other household items. Obviously I am happier with the generated power heating my water and powering appliances rather than exporting it at at 4p unit Based on this assumption I am not going to have much power left over to heat a buffer tank for UFH if it is third on the list for receiving generated power after household requirements and DHW requirements am I ?

Thanks all so the calculator shows that we could generate 3640 kwh p/a and in the peak 2 months potentially generate 532 kwh per month. If we take this monthly figure of 532 divide it by 30 days and say that at best we could expect to produce 17 kwh on a given day - would that 17 kwh heat a 250l water cylinder? If I understand @A_L quote below he states it would need 15.95kwh so 17kwh would do it. Am I interpreting this correctly? I am trying to see if we could use nearly all of the power generated by the PV even at its peak generating times and I think the answer is yes assuming we start each day at mid summer with no hot water in a cylinder?

This topic may be more appropriate to the PV subforum but based on my above usage plan as I would nearly always be using whatever the PV produces ( as I would think that 4Kw would nearly always be used with a 250L water cylinder and UFH buffer ) can anyone give a very rough idea of annual output and therefore potential savings. The orientation is S SW and would be on a 20 degree roof and location is 55 degrees north. Is this information enough to give a rough idea?

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this question In particular thank you to @SteamyTea for doing the calc twice for me - I liked you first answer better but will now go in a different direction because of you revised answer. If I go in the direction of PV instead of ST and I put up a 4KW PV array is this how it would work - I would plan to use the PV for these requirements in this order is that correct - domestic electricity requirements - if there is no requirement for this then heating DHW - then heating buffer tank for UFH when both of above are not calling for input ( UFH buffer would be topped up by gas boiler as required ) export back to grid when no domestic requirements Is that how the system would work?

Guys you have all been very helpful previously and wondered if anyone that is mathematically inclined could look at the doc attached ( boiler spec ) and tell me how much it would cost using the 30KW boiler to heat a 250L water cylinder using the cost per KW/hour detailed in the link below - BUT the unit cost in the link below for LPG is now 48 pence per unit not 36.75 as detailed in the link http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/ I am trying to work out the cost saving of installing solar thermal which would heat a 250L tank to a usable level nearly every day April - Oct Is there enough information in these 2 documents to do this calc? Thanks for any help

@Alexphd1 I don't but could investigate that option @Nickfromwales I have attached SAP report. I hope to achieve a better result than this as we can prob get better values on air tightness and windows but didnt want to commit to for BC. Your beer analagy works brilliantly - I am much better at buying beer than building houses @ProDave SAP report attached Thanks again for all the input SAP_report_Redacted.pdf

Ok I,m back with more questions - I hope you guys are patient!! As I said at the start I cant be sure we will be in this new house long term - we might be there till our dying day ( which might be quite soon with the stress of this ) or we might be out in 2-5 years. I wont compromise on insulation and windows etc as this is something we cant change if we end up staying but the idea of LPG gas CH was that it gets us in with little or no capital outlay and a tie in to buy their gas for only 2 years. So if we move on its been cost effective and if we are to stay we could change the boiler to perhaps ASHP in a few years - more specific questions about that now. (1) If we install a non combi gas boiler with UVC and UFH both upstairs and down and then change the boiler to perhaps ASHP / GSHP / even oil boiler am I right in thinking that all the plumbing will still work i.e all the inside of the house plumbing circuits and it would just be the plumbing at the boiler would need to be changed ? (2) Am I right in saying that the UFH pipes should be 150mm spacing for heat pumps, and gas or oil heating etc should be 200mm spacing? If that is the case can I install 150mm spacing and use it with gas ( in case I change to heat pump later ) - surely the additional cost of the pipe and work wouldn't be THAT much more? (3) @Nickfromwales You are a fan of Valiant boilers and if I dont want the Vokera boiler the gas company will give me an allowance towards any boiler of my choice - which one would you recommend and roughly what cost would it be? Also how much would a suitable 250L UVC be roughly? I wouldn't need a buffer tank for the UFH would I? As already stated I have no building or technical knowledge so I would be paying the contractor to do this work. I would also not be in a knowledgeable position to buy a heat pump without local guidance. With this in mind I approached two local companies to give me an estimate for ASHP. I apologise for the detail below but I dont know what bits are relevent so I have copied both quotes into this post for your perusal and comments - see below Quote Company 1 Hitachi Yutaki - M Monobloc Air Source Heat Pump 11kW Single Phase £6790 ( to include ) 1 x Hitachi Yutaki - M Monobloc Air Source Heat Pump rated at 11kW Single Phase 1 x 3 port diverting valve to switch system between heating and hot water 1 x LCD Hitachi Integrated Timeclock/Temperature Control for Heating/Cooling and Hot Water System with Weather Compensation 1 x Hitachi Wireless Intelligent Stat 1 x Hot Water Sensor 1 x Heating Strainer 1 x Set of Flexible Braided Hoses 1 x Installation visit 1 x Commissioning Visit 1 x 7 year warranty on heat pump 250L Hot Water Cylinder £1440 ( to include ) Heat Pump Hot Water Cylinder: 1 x 250L Unvented Stainless Steel Heat Pump Rated Cylinder 1 x Coil in Tank min. 2.2m2 surface area to suit heat pump system 1 x Delivery of Cylinder to site (Plumbing of cylinder by others) Heating Distribution Pipe Work £1380 ( to include ) Heating Distribution Pipework: 16m x 28mm Copper Pipework at Heat Pump and to Underfloor manifolds/ Radiators 3m x 28mm Copper Pipework to Hot Water Cylinder 1 x 25mm Coils of 28mm HEP Pipe in Pipe in Floor 1 x Selection of Copper Mapress Fittings for Leak Free Installation 1 x 19mm Armaflex Insulation on Heating Pipes in Unheated Space 6 x 28mm Wheelhead Gate Valves 2 x Automatic Air Vents at Cylinder and UFH Manifolds 1 x 25L Expansion Vessel & Quick Fill Loop 1 x Corrosion Inhibitor & Antifreeze Protection Added to System 1 x Labour for piping the above and filling and testing complete heating system Quote Company 2 Daikin Altherma 8kw LT split c/w integral 260litre cylinder £5500 ( to include ) Supplied, installed & commissioned DAIK003 Daikin Altherma LT 8kw outdoor unit Altherma LT 6/8kw 260L Integrated Hydrobox With 260L DHW Tank G3 Kit for 260L Floor Standing Indoor Unit Daikin Altherma LT Controller Installation of LT Indoor & Outdoor Units.Supply & connection of 10m's of refigerant pipework, insulation FGAS certified. Daikin Altherma Commissioning This installer adds:- The air source heat pump is supplied in two components with an outdoor condenser positioned on an external wall connected to the integral cylinder/floor standing unit in the hotpress. Refrigerant pipework is connected between the two. Based on heat demand of 35 W's per m2 the heat pump would provide 100% of your heating & hot water. There is no requirement for any of the below which you need to consider when pricing against oil - - oil boiler. - oil tank. - external interconnecting pipework, pumps, valves etc. - flue pipe. - hot water cylinder. - time controls, motorised valves etc - labour for above. The system offers a very efficient, comfortable and reliable heat which is very important for a highly insulated house. The heat pump can offer efficiencies of 430% with the underfloor heating. It would be designed to operate @ 35C flow temperature when -3c outside. Final question then (4) I asked both companies to quote based on our drawings and that's what they suggested ..... over £4000 apart!!!! Why? I can see that one is supplying an additional UVC and the cheaper quote has one inbuilt. The dearer quote also has a lot of Heating Distribution Pipework - will I not need that for the cheaper quote? Guys thank you all again for the time and effort you put into this - and as usual plain simple English talk is required for my comprehension

The technical data for the Combi 30kW Vokera Vision 30C Boiler states that it delivers 12 litres per minute @ 35 degrees. Is 35 degrees a showering temperature? Our current shower delivers 20 litres per minute when not using a water saving shower head ( thats my idea of a shower!! ) and 10 litres per minute with an Ecocamel shower head which I find "adequate" as I accept the lesser shower pressure as a compromise for saving heated water. Would the 30kw Vokera Mynute i30 Boiler with an UVC produce a more forceful shower and at a steadier temp / flow if another DHW requirement was required at same time? How would a combi boiler work with full house UFH? Please understand that I am not fully conversant with all things technical so - please go easy on me with complicated responses Thanks again guys for your patience

OK this an interim thank you to everyone who has taken time to contribute - I think will need a plumbers dictionary to understand what you all said !!! Only joking - my understanding is improving the more I read. The funniest thing was when my wife read @Alexphd1 suggestion that I self install an ASHP - I am the guy that takes the car to the autoparts store that fits wiper blades for you !!! Not through laziness through incomprehension of anything technical. I will take time and come back with some answers and some more questions - thanks again

Hi Guys First post on here but recognise many names from another forum – so hello! In Northern Ireland at present there are NO renewable heat / energy incentives, grants, ROC payments or feed in tariff benefits etc – NIL – NADDA – NONE. This means that a lot of the ideas I wanted to implement like PV, Heat Pump etc are not at this stage going to be implemented. I won’t invest in a long term payback as we might only be in the new home for a few years – not sure yet. We plan to have UFH downstairs and upstairs and will ensure that all plumbing etc is compatible to swap out our boiler in years to come if some Renewable incentive becomes available. We were going to simply install an oil boiler as the most cost effective initial outlay until our future plans become more certain but have now decided ( we think ) to go with LPG. There are only two LPG suppliers here and one of them is offering a 2 year contract / tie in ( LPG cost is 46p unit ) and they will offer a free boiler & flue ( details below ) or £500 towards a boiler of our choice. The tank rental is £60 p/a. This makes this option attractive to us as 1. There is little or no initial outlay 2. We are only tied in for two years which means we will know our long term plans and if we are staying there may be some renewable heat incentive in place then and we can change over The boilers that they are offering free are:- 30kw Vokera Mynute i30 Boiler with Standard Horizontal flue and LPG Conversion Kit Combi 30kW Vokera Vision 30C with Standard Horizontal flue and LPG Conversion Kit The house is 2600 sq feet 3 showers 2 baths, it will be well insulated and triple glazed with MVHR and just my wife and I live at home. Twice a year for a few days we have up to 10 people in the house staying. Water usage is 2 showers each morning and 1 bath and 1 shower in the evening We installed a gas combi boiler in my Mums house a few years ago - Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30si Condensing Combination Boiler and we found that with direct mains water supply it was a bit hit and miss getting the water to remain at a constant flow temperature. The non combi version Vokera has a solar option which we are considering. Are these “free” boilers worth considering for our requirements? Should we take the cash option and is there a better boiler out there? Is the combi option a good steady temperature and good flow force? We have a pressurised shower at present and it is really forceful. How long would it take the 30KW Vokera to heat a 250l UVC? Would these boilers be sufficient for our UFH requirements? Sorry for such a long post!! Many Thanks Simon