Addlepate

Hi all, sorry for the delay replying. Giving the eyes a bit of recovery. Thank you both. I think it went OK - won't really know until the follow up in a month or so. Weirdest experience I've ever had, I think, but I won't go into the gory detail! I'm inclined to agree. There would only be one hole needed through one joist so no issues with trying to achieve a fall and the hole could be on centreline and less than 50mm. I think that it is the joist next to the wall likely means it will be subject to less loading, though I'm not sure yet how much of the bath load will be imposed on it. I also feel more relaxed about it as the joists are slightly over-specified for the span. I think it would be difficult to arrange blocking to the wall, and I'm not sure if I misunderstand what you mean about reinforcing top and bottom - do you mean on the side of the joist above and below the hole, as the floor and downstairs ceiling are attached top and bottom? I could make up ply flitches with a matching hole, or perhaps sister the joist. I'll make investigations and maybe talk to building control. I'm thinking at the moment wood T&G / Shiplap type panelling (probably actually water resistant MDF or wall panels) then painted walls. Internal wall insulation is do-able and would be better for a bathroom but need to think about the work and how to accommodate the window frame etc. If we go panelling it would probably be stepped out from the wall allowing pipes to be hidden behind and giving room for insulation at least part way up. I'll speak to the gas installer about the need to mount the boiler on a board, as he might be doing it anyway, but I don't think it will be needed for insulation as if we're going for option 3 it will be mounted on the top long wall, and that's an internal (party) wall so no (or not as much) need for insulation. I can get him to mount it with a bit of clearance to the window wall to allow for insulation to that wall. I agree on wall panels, haven't used them but they look good and much quicker / simpler than tiles, it's just whether we can get them in the style we want. As regards boiler positioning and bathroom layout, the vote here seems to be option 3 and I walked partner through it at the weekend and she agrees, so that's decided and I've committed to the boiler installation top right on the long wall on Friday. Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts and help, I've felt very on my own with this stuff and it's good to have the support and be able to kick ideas around.

Just a quick one as I can't see properly. @joe90 I should have numbered as I went - this one? More tomorrow if I can see.

@-rick-, @joe90 Is this helpful? Same orientation as the layouts. Dimensions in millimetres. Room is 3300 x 2730.

@-rick-, @joe90 I'll try - I have an eye operation today which might get in the way. Basically the joists run longways / right to left with the first joist about 75mm from the bottom wall. The current bath waste avoids this as the trap is one side then the waste passes over it. The stack is on the outside of the bottom long wall, just under 400mm from the bottom left corner. I'm inclined to agree that one joist should be OK if I can get in to bore a hole on the centreline. I've just had a nag from the gas installer about positioning while writing this - wants to order the flue!

Just realised even with the shower near the stack there's still a joist in the way of the shower drain. Measuring tape out and thinking cap on again.

I was thinking about that, not sure though and not sure about the appearance / aesthetics. I'll have a hunt for bath options tonight and see.

It is tough! However it's good in a way, as it's making us press on with things. Re. postponing I agree, though it might not be possible; the politics are internal, rather than with the installer! Partner is the 'just want to get on with it' type ... I think it's nearly there, so I'll discuss with partner again tonight and show her the latest layout. I do too, I think it's helped open things up and balance the room further, and make the cupboard that bit less dominant again. I don't think there is. The door opens off the end of a landing / corridor and through a supporting wall, so it would be difficult to arrange, though I'll have a think. Brick built, old style uninsulated cavity wall, window is uPVC double glazed in the original wood frame, wood sill, moulding round to trim to the walls. You'd need to make the whole frame deeper then refit the moulding, I think. It would be good to improve the insulation, but we haven't thought in depth yet, so as you suggest leaving the option might be useful. 😄👍 I was thinking this, and am going to have a look for likely baths and related technical info. Some seem to have space under, some not. I'm not sure whether the flush to floor ones with space under are still intended to have the waste under the floor, though, so you would have to cut a hole in the skirt; and I'd have to work out what to do with the visible waste above the floor; perhaps use a chrome [effect] one as the freestanding baths with legs have, as @joe90 refers to - or even use a freestander with legs, though I haven't seen one I particularly like the design of yet. There are also baths that have a free standing appearance, but are designed to go against one or more walls ('back to wall' or 'D shape' baths e.g. https://www.eastbrooktrade.com/en-gb/malin-d-shape-btw-1700x800-beauforte-42_1241. I have yet to investigate, but that might achieve the visual effect of a free standing bath while making dealing with (hiding) the waste easier. Yes, I agree. It looks as though a proper shower is achievable in the space without too many compromises, it's what the boss wants, and we can achieve a good - and fairly good looking - layout, so I don't think we need to fall back to a shower over the bath unless really stuck. I really think this is coming together, particularly on the immediate question of boiler location, and I really appreciate all the thoughts and ideas. It seems to me the top right corner probably is the only location for the boiler (assuming it's still to be in the bathroom, and there aren't really options anywhere else). It looks as though we can achieve a good layout with it there (option 2 above), without having the boiler / airing cupboard too dominant, and it looks as though there are options for the bath; freestanding, or back to the wall, might be an option and we can always fall back to a built in. For me, the boiler on the long wall gives a slightly better appearance and layout to the room, leaves options (e.g. external wall insulation), and the space around the basin would work better, but cupboard and boiler servicing access will be restricted by the bath (though still exceeding the boiler manufacturer's requirements); while boiler on the window wall will be slightly easier to fit, still gives a reasonable room layout and offers better cupboard and servicing access but perhaps the appearance isn't as good and it doesn't work as well with the basin. Let me know if I've missed anything! More thinking this evening - and a consultation with the mistress of the house!

Just thinking about this a bit more. I'm going round in circles a bit this morning. To boiler position, I think it can only go top right on the window wall or long wall, i.e. or It can't go top left because of the door, and bottom right or bottom left uses space that's better used for the bath, shower, toilet etc. (and doesn't work so well for layout). I'd originally thought long wall if we went for option 1 in my original post, or window wall for option 2, to maximise access to the cupboard and boiler (for servicing) in both cases. However, long wall for option 2 could work, per the images above. We sort of got pushed into the boiler fitting for various reasons but I don't think politically I'll be able to clow it down now! There is another issue with putting the boiler on the long wall, where the current boiler is, as the plaster is in pretty poor condition, but we may have to just work round that. I like the idea of insulating the external walls as @-rick- and @joe90 suggest above but it seems to me we are constrained by the early boiler fitting date, and I'm not sure how to insulate the window wall particularly, at least without rebuilding the window frame, as the insulation would be deeper than the frame is. I've shown a free standing bath, and that definitely works better aesthetically, but I'm not clear on how the waste and overflow runs for a free standing bath. Presumably, particularly for one that doesn't have legs, they would have to run underfloor, which would give us the same problem with the joists as the shower does. To have the bath in the position shown for either option, the waste would have to be above the floor, so does that force a built in bath or are there free standing options, preferably without legs, that have the waste above the floor? There's also the weight of a large free standing bath to consider. btw thanks @Onoff for the pic of your wet room; probably not the way we'd go, but it looks like a nice job.

I thought about that. I'm not sure how to manage insulation on the window wall given the window frame depth etc., but there won't be that much exposed area anyway. I could insulate the other external wall (the bottom wall in the diagram). No, just the boiler at the moment. Yes it is tight, but really all I need to do now is define enough to make sure the boiler's going in the right place. Unfortunately I'm a bit of a hostage to fortune (partner wanting to press on and not being systematic about it)

@joe90 thanks. I'm the sort of person who thinks by bouncing ideas around so it's really useful for me, and to have the benefit of professional experience. I'm thinking get the plumbing right early, work with what's there but don't be afraid to make changes or take on work if it makes for a much better layout, but don't make a rod for my own back if I don't have to. Definitely going for a larger cubicle, I hate feeling cramped in the shower. I was thinking a frameless corner shower. @torre thanks. The window and bottom wall are external and I'd like to get some extra insulation in there so was thinking about another thickness of something, maybe old style wood [effect] panelling. e.g. https://www.panellingdirect.co.uk/product/1x-moisture-resistant-panelling-2440mm/ or the shiplap / T&G style. That might stand off to form a shelf or more storage with the sink drain running through underneath. I'd have to work out how to make it work round the window - it's much bigger than it looks in the layout, 1200 wide and 1700 high and only 770 off the floor, so panelling or storage of normal height would have to fit round it, but that can be done. @-rick- this one? I agree if so, as does the mistress of the house! Need to work out furnishing and rediator positioning details. Thinking about the boiler positioning a bit more, top right on the window wall gives us a shallower and less dominant airing / boiler cupboard and is best for option 2, and if we did go for option 1 and a bigger cupboard the boiler access would still be OK, albeit a bit awkward.

There is one other wrinkle, which is that although I've shown the room as rectangular, it's actually slightly lozenge shaped - the whole house is out of square by five degrees or so. For option 2 that would mean an angled bit of drywall or studwork to square the corner off for the shower, though that's probably easier than complex waste runs.

Morning all, thanks for your thoughts. Apologies for the delay replying - I had a minor eye procedure yesterday and couldn't see to type! @G and J thanks, good catch - the radiator is just lashed in for the moment and I still have to work out where radiator and furniture would fit, and what type, as well as which way the door will swing (it's hinged the opposite side from that shown at the moment). @Redbeard it is kitchen below. I don't see a way to do that at the moment, but I will give it some thought. The option at the moment seems to be to go out through the window wall and into the extension roof space, then somewhere, which is do-able but would be work to break into and then make good the currently inaccessible roof space. @Iceverge thanks. By stuck in that corner I take it you mean bottom left as shown. Part of the thinking of the second layout is to start with a high drain from the sink so we can go round the walls and conceal boxing in behind the bath etc. @FarmerN thanks, good thoughts but no option for a shower in another room. Walk in shower is a requirement at the moment though we will consider, particularly as you've suggested a shower over bath can work well. @joe90 thanks. Interesting that you and @-rick- at least seem to be leaning towards option 2 which I think I might be coming round to. It does, as you say, make arranging the plumbing much simpler. I'd been wary of saving work at the expense of a worse, and less attractive, room layout but it does seem to work and would allow us to have a less dominant boiler cupboard. @-rick- the dog leg in the corner is the boiler cupboard - the grey / brown face would be the door - and we plan an airer above for towels etc. I'm not familiar with @Onoff's shower but hadn't thought of a corner one. @torre current boiler is ancient and not condensing so no condensate drain at present, just the run off from the pressure relief valve. Condensate drain is another consideration and the plan would be to put it into the shower or sink drain. There wouldn't be room for a shower where the existing bath is now; the drawings are a bit misleading as the tool wouldn't let me put a bigger window in; in reality you'd only get a 700 wide shower in that corner, which is too small. I did think about everything on one wall, but it's too tight; it all ends up too cramped together and not very useable. Thanks for the thoughts though. I feel a bit as though I'm shooting everyone down; hopefully I'm not, as it's all helping the thinking. I've also had a discussion about drilling the joists and running the shower waste from the position shown in option 1 to the bottom wall, but I don't think it's possible as I couldn't comply with building regs and get enough fall on the waste. Any further thoughts appreciated.

Hi all, Tackling the bathroom layout and design, prompted by a new boiler installation next week 😱. This is part of a renovation of a 1912 terrace house. Aim is to include a good size bath, walk in shower, plus obviously toilet and basin etc. The boiler is currently in a cupboard in one corner of the bathroom. This is the layout as it is: This doesn't work too badly, perhaps with the shower on the top wall: Trouble is, the joists run longways (left to right) and the stack is outside the wall bottom left, near the existing toilet, so we'd have to cut all the joists to run the shower drain. The only options I can see are (1) put in a false floor to create space for the shower drain, (2) go out through the window wall; but the pitch roof of the extension comes up to three courses of brick below the bathroom window, so we'd have to break in to the extension roof space to run the shower drain, (3) put the sink where I've shown the shower, and the shower bottom left, which would mean moving the toilet but the sink drain would be above floor level and could run round the walls, boxed in: Wondering if anyone can spot anything I've missed, or has any general advice or thoughts about the proposed layouts. Thanks.

Hello Jack, thanks for the welcome, apologies for the delay replying. Onto the bathroom first, so first proper post coming up ...

Hi all, Been trying for years to renovate a 1912 terrace house and got badly stalled for all sorts of reasons - cowboy builders, unresponsive builders, covid, pressure of work, etc. etc. We're trying to reboot things and I need to build more confidence, so joined in the hope of advice and support, and maybe feeling a bit less on my own with it. I've a few questions already so I'll post them up in the relevant forums. Thanks