Burkle

i think there are different ways of dealing with your situation in respect of the current permission.... however, it may not be so simple as getting what you want from it. Without seeing the permission or the details of the condition its difficult to say what the chance might be of changing anything through an application. An element of the decision may have come down to opinion, but there will also be planning policies to consider (national, district and potentially local), as well as any other constraints (conservation area? effect on setting of historic buildings?). Turning to an appeal, this again will very much depend on the reasoning for the condition. Very difficult to advise without knowing the full details and the context. With regards to conditions, as mentioned previously in this thread they will be worded very specifically to what you need to do - what stage they need discharging by; whether they need discharging or are just informative There are lots of examples of conditions and such like slipping the net and not being complied with then nobody ever noticing or enforcing. You just have to consider the worst case examples - we often have issues with people trying to sell their property, but their buyers solicitors or lender flag up that conditions are not discharged or permissions are not in place. Alot of the time this means losing sales or applying retrospectively. In your case if the aspect in question is quite obvious then it may not be so easy... also consider you home insurance policies and what terms and conditions suggest in these (there will be something regarding planning and building control permissions)

Just a brief update on things again - since sunday and stripping the parts down again and putting everything back (old diverter and pins, new washers; old pump; new/refurbished heat exchanger) hot water has been fine still, no noise from boiler, and heating has worked perfect morning and evening every day except tuesday evening and wednesday morning (when the ufh had warmed up but not to the same extent, and radiators warmed for first few minutes only then nothing with boiler still on and water at temp). As above points, probably points to electrical / PCB issue, possibly still flow issue (although i cant see it being a blockage moving about unless its in the boiler as it would effect flow on both)... still no pattern to it! Waiting for boiler quotes. I just dont like not knowing why something just doesnt work properly anymore!

CH and UFH both worked no issues this morning. Only obaervation I have from the diverter valve is that some of the pins in the diverter kit where slightly longer than the older ones. The older ones may have worn slightly and the system become accustomed to this over time, then the subtle change with the newer ones cause whining with the water pushing through. Still looking to replace, but just in case anybody ever gets a similar issue

Just to add, there is constant power to the pump on this too when I've sat checking, it doesn't stop during operation

There is the current 2 port valve (the snug lite) for the ufh on the flow, then the CH circuit valve under the boiler on the flow after the t off to the ufh flow.... so if i read correct, ideally the 2 port valve on the ufh circuit would be between the close coupled t's (open with ufh all the time), and would be closed if both the CH and UFH are on... that way there will be a circuit to the CH open at the same time the UFH is on a loop, but if only the UFH is on then there is a bypass on with this. As you can see there isn't space for this, and the manifold can't move, but might there be anything to help this with the current ABV set up? Obviously currently the ABV is there whether the UFH is on or the CH or both, and I presume in reality the setting of the ABV would be different if you treat both individually. Sorry for all the questions! I have a basic understanding of how the circuits can and would work, however I don't have the experience of it! If I am replacing the boiler I'd like to try and ensure the system is going to function. Just as a side note (whilst I'm waiting on people to see and quote for boiler replacement), I've stripped down the diverter valve again and put all the old parts back in but cleaned up with the washers from the newer parts. There is no longer any whining / whistling, and the CH seems to be working OK (albeit, the system still needs balancing properly since all rad valves got replaced). However, the UFH circuit now cuts the boiler after around 10 minutes with either safety stat fault or primary circuit fault. I've tried increasing the UFH pump speed and decreasing it but both seem to be the same. The water gets through as the manifold gets warm. It's presumably a flow issue, and another reason for trying to ensure the actual circuit is OK before just replacing the boiler

These photos show the current arrangement under the boiler upstairs with the ABV, and then the arrangement at the manifold downstairs

I will have a proper look when I'm home, but not sure there will be enough space available where the pipes have been dropped down in a corner. Might be able to make a primary flow circuit in the first floor under floor boards before they drop down as secondary (secondary flow pipes are going to be around 3m away though then).

Something like figure 3 in this image thank you for a thorough explanation of everything too!

It does have one out from the diverter back to the back of the return / pressure release valve, and it often gets too hot to touch

It never used to do it before the diverter and pump where worked on, that's what puzzles me

Hi sharpener, yes there is an ABV between the flow and return after the ufh was installed over a year ago. No flow through the ABV when it is whining though, and no change in the whining

Thanks sharpener, and thanks Nickfromwales, i will check have a check on the wires during operation with a fluke pen to see if this is similar to what you found. I dont disagree with you on replacing the boiler, that is the next port of call! Labour thankfully hasnt cost anything in monetary terms (just my time!), and parts have all been reconditioned as they are generally now available new on this so its not been any more than £150 to date.... which it would likely have cost me more in getting somebody out to try and find the fault in the end anyway. I am just the sort of person who likes to understand how things work, and try and understand if it doesnt and why! Hence why all of this advice is great, but also shows that every situation can be different even if you can understand the workings. In the process at least i've flushed the system and all the radiators valves have been changed! The aspect i cant figure out so much still though is why the boiler is whistling / whining (sounds like the pump, but could be something else) only when the ufh is on / open and not when the CH is on or hot water. The pressure on the gauge for both the manifold and the boiler remain constant, and the ufh manifold shows there is flow during this. I did put the old pump head back on last night to see if this changed anything, but it still whistled. I also changed to the old pump body with the newer pump head to see if this made a difference but it didnt. It never used to make this noise, so that makes me wonder whether its the diverter valve which has had the insides replaced at the same time as the pump is the issue with the noise. In the process of speaking to a gas engineer on a replacement boiler

Just to note - i have a similar topic in the Radiators Section - the below is a further summary follow this now the ufh has issues. To run through briefly what has been carried out: - all radiators valves (TRVs and lockshields) changed - x400 in system for 4 weeks and heating run as best as it would - central heating pipework main flushed (2 radiators removed and flushed individually) and the ufh heating loops (4 loops) mains flushed - all run through fine - boiler pump replaced - diverter valve pins / washers replaced and greased - dhw water heat exchanger cleaned out (no issues at any time with hot water anyway) - temp sensors replaced along with actuator motor on the combi 3 way valve in the boiler - primary heat exchanger removed and flushed through; has now also been replaced along with seals to chamber The main issue is the heating does not get hot. There seems to be flow in the system as you can hear and feel water going through, and on the ufh you can see there is flow. Initially on calling for heat with the radiators they will get warm, then the burner will go off and pump still seems to be working and water flowing but it is colder. After removing the primary heat exchanger, cleaning this, then reinstalling, the ufh worked like a dream again!.... but only for 1 night, then the day after everything the same - hence why the primary heat exchanger has now been replaced suspecting the old one just may have had too much limescale and the like lodged in it. After replacing the heat exchanger, initially the radiators all worked great for an hour or so, similar to when the old one was cleaned.... then back to how it was before. Boiler fires on calling on either the UFH or central heating - diverter valves on both open up fine and seem to have no issue. Since changing the pump (for the same model / type ) the pump does whine / whistle when the ufh is on and the boiler is firing, but this goes off when the central heating is on with it at the same time, and the mixer valve at the manifold also whistles (the only way to stop it is turn the mixer down to minimum... but then the temp is just cool water). When feeling the pipework you can feel when the hot water pumps out the boiler, but there are several minutes between this happening, sometimes even say 5-10 minutes, and then it is just a flush of hot water. As the hot water works with no issues at all i am trying to find what the issue is before i make the decision to replace the boiler. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.

Just an update - primary heat exchanger removed and cleaned through with spirit of salts solution - everything is back to being hot! Must have been a flow issue through the heat exchanger

Pump replaced, diverter valve taken apart and all parts replaced and greased, dhw heat exchanger cleaned, Ch circuit flushed through, radiators valves replaced and rads flushed individually. Fired up boiler manually from diverter valve and worked great to start, but then same issue. Gets to heat quickly, but it seems to just stay at heat and flame goes out. Pump doesn't seem to be constantly pumping water round, but when it does you can feel the heat flush through the flow. Pipes in the boiler and diverter get very hot, as well as initial part of return from boiler until the water pumps away. Any ideas on what might be the issue? Pcb ? Hot water still works no issues at all