ALI_G12

They don't know how many people I've seen. It wasn't my intention to see so many but I'll just keep on going until I find the right one with the right price. BTW C has come in with ~£125k + VAT. I did like C and went to see one of his sites in progress - was very impressed. Just waiting on L now. L is a different type of outfit with salespeople in branded cars. At the moment it's between C, H and possibly L depending on their quote. I get the impression some of the itemised quotes I'm getting are from professional QS. One of the companies did actaully say they outsourced this. Again, if I get enough itemised quotes in I should have a feel for labour and materials. That said, some of the quotes are organised differently so can be difficult to directly compare across some items.

I ended up producing all of the party wall notices myself. Some surprises here as I had my suspicions about who would sign and who wouldn't. In the end I have 2 signed off with one being the terrace party wall and the other the top floor (and least effected) leaseholder. The one I thought that would be the most likely to sign (garden party wall) had a change in heart and wants to appoint their own surveyor and not the one I suggested. Still waiting on their choice and indeed I may choose to use them to deal with the other leasehold party wall that hasn't yet signed. This is going to hold up things for a while I suspect. During the course of this it has also emerged that tenants with a tenancy agreement of greater than 1 year also require a party wall notice so I've had to put together another one! I haven't enjoyed this bit of the project at all as it really feels like it puts you at the mercy of potential unscrupulous party wall practitioners who will be happy to throw a spanner in the works.

Thanks, I've been proceeding along those lines with the further site visits ie. "can I buy materials". Most people have said yes. Updated table: Subtotal VAT Total inc VAT A* £145,000.00 £29,000.00 £174,000.00 B £0.00 £0.00 C £0.00 £0.00 D £140,000.00 £28,000.00 £168,000.00 E* £160,000.00 £32,000.00 £192,000.00 F £0.00 £0.00 G £0.00 £0.00 H £109,000.00 £21,800.00 £130,800.00 I £148,500.00 £29,700.00 £178,200.00 J £160,000.00 £32,000.00 £192,000.00 K £99,000.00 £19,800.00 £118,800.00 L * quoted without site visit Glad I didn't stop the search after 3 or 4 quotes. Finally getting some reasonable quotes in from people I think are capable and running proper businesses. I have some site visits coming up to a couple of the prospective contractors so I can see how they run things on site. Going to hold on for another week until I make the decision until I get a priced quote from L who I suspect is going to be competitive.

In addition to my other posts in other parts of the forum I thought I'd add an addition here as party wall is occupying a lot of headspace at the moment. For our little end of terrace North London ground floor flat side infill extension we've got 3 party wall agreements: i) terrace wall ie. our direct neighbours ii) the 2 other leaseholders above that we share the freehold with iii) a garden boundary wall The entire plot aside from the communal entrance way and bin shed is demised to the ground floor flat lease. Extension is in blue below: I have kept all neighbours informed from the conception of the planning and development of the project to this stage. With planning now awarded I'd like to get to the project underway and have a few builders who can start within 8 weeks. However, I've got the issue of party wall to deal with first and this is where I need advice. I would like to be able to furnish my neighbours with as much knowledge about what we're going to be doing, how we'll do it and the possible risks involved. I'm not sure that a 3rd party surveyor would be in the best place to do this when the intricate details lie with the contractor, structural engineer and myself? Indeed, some of the finer details are not known yet. For example if I had instructed a party wall surveyor for the garden boundary wall party a few weeks ago and they issued a Line of Junction notice for new wall up to (but not astride) the boundary would they know that my builder would intend to clear the vegetation and create a hoarding 1m over the line to enable the digger to dig the strip foundations and bricklayer to work on the new brick and block wall? Just asking what the situation is when things come to light after the signing of the consent? Garden Boundary Wall - Line of junction notice new wall up to the boundary. I've already discussed this in principle with the freeholder and it was agreed that we could knock down the existing garden wall, clear the foundation and build new foundation and wall up to the boundary line. However, as mentioned above, having spoken to some contractors it looks like we'd actually need to hoard off 1m over the boundary and clear out some 2-3 m vegetation. I'll put in an allowance for making good where possbile (although I'm not keen on any roots near my new foundation!). I intend to use the standard Letter 6 template from gov.uk as the basis for the party wall notice. Our building - 2 x leaseholders, 1 x freeholder - Party Structure Notice / Notice of proposed works under section 6 of the Act - Excavation and construction detailling structural method and drawings. I have had some advice here suggesting that I should pursue a licence to alter from the freeholder as well. Yet to have the detailed conversation with my fellow freeholders but they are aware of the scope of works. Most of the builders I have spoken with have suggested they'd rather demolish the existing single storey outrigger and build up again. That will effect the upstairs terrace (although I'm not sure who 'owns' the terrace, or even if it is a terrace or just my roof with railings around it)? Terrace Party wall - Party Structure Notice / Notice of proposed works under section 6 of the Act - Excavation and construction - we'll be digging new strip foundations within 3 metres to a depth of around 1m. The existing ground floor slab will be broken up and new floor constructed. Also need to place padstones into the party wall to support steels. Hoping to get the steels as high up as possible. I think we're looking at around £1000 inc VAT per consented party wall agreement. I reckon licence to alter will probably run the same so perhaps £6,000 inc VAT worth of legals. Given I've put a lot of effort into researching this topic (and I'm hoping I may also have a few pointers from the kind members of this forum!!!) I was thinking it might be a good strategy for me to issue the Party Wall notices myself along with as much method statement and easy to follow diagrams and risks/making good etc? I will nominate a party wall solicitor in my letter and if anyone wants to dissent then the solicitor can handle it? Any advice gratefully received.

I'm hoping I'm going to get some cheaper quotes over the next few days! If they're all in that sort of range then it's a bit of a wakeup call. Moving isn't really an option at the moment, I've had pipe dreams of a life in the country but the reality is we're in this place for at least the next 5 years. The detail I've added above looks workable. I would hope to get better prices on the steel fabrication and materials. I've already got a garage full of Kingspan and APR. Plasterboard can usually be had more cheaper and I've seen pallets on ebay for local pickup (although I appreciate it's a morning's hard labour!) Also, I don't want anyone to assume I'm a soft city type😁! I run a trade based business in London and I'll be happy doing the electrical first and second fixes and getting it signed off. I'll also be doing the kitchen. I'll also turn my hand to gold leaf but it look quite labour intensive😆

Item Total 1 Gen/Prelim £ 7,500.00 2 Demolition £ 2,500.00 3 Substructure £ 18,500.00 4 Superstr. £ 65,000.00 5 Finishes £ 28,500.00 6 Mechanical £ 1,000.00 7 Plumbing £ 3,500.00 8 Electrical £ 8,500.00 PROJECTED COST £ 135,000.00 OVERHEAD AND PROFIT 15% £ 20,250.00 VAT 20% £ 31,050.00 Total £ 186,300.00 This is a breakdown from one of the builders. Hopefully once I've narrowed it down to 2 or 3 quotes we can have a look at areas where savings can be made. I have some further detail from another builder: General/Prelims Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total Supervision and Coordination 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 2,100.00 £ 2,100.00 £ 2,100.00 Submittals and Shop drawings 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 Final Cleaning 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 650.00 £ 650.00 £ 650.00 Mobilization Costs 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 £ 500.00 Bond 0.00 0% 0.00 £ - £ - £ - Temporary Control & Facilities 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 1,200.00 £ 1,200.00 £ 1,200.00 Scaffolding 1.00 0% 1.00 £ 3,400.00 £ 3,400.00 £ 3,400.00 Skips 4.00 0% 4.00 £ 330.00 £ 1,320.00 £ 1,320.00 £ 9,670.00 Demolition Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total External Wall to be removed 13.39 SQM 0% 13.39 £ 60.00 £ 803.40 £ 803.40 Internal Cavity Wall to be removed 2.30 SQM 0% 2.30 £ 60.00 £ 138.00 £ 138.00 Stud Wall to be removed 11.27 SQM 0% 11.27 £ 45.00 £ 507.15 £ 507.15 Window to be removed 4.00 Each 0% 4.00 £ 55.00 £ 220.00 £ 220.00 Door to be removed 4.00 Each 0% 4.00 £ 60.00 £ 240.00 £ 240.00 Floor , Wall & Ceiling Finishes to be removed 25.59 SQM 0% 25.59 £ 35.00 £ 895.65 £ 895.65 £ 2,804.20 Substructure Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total 300x600mm Deep Footing 4.40 CM 5% 4.62 £ 265.00 £ 180.00 £ 1,224.08 £ 831.45 £ 2,055.53 600x600mm Deep Pad Foot 0.72 CM 5% 0.76 £ 265.00 £ 180.00 £ 200.34 £ 136.08 £ 336.42 (.6m High) Blockwork both sides Wall W/ Lean Mix Concrete & DPC 14.66 SQM 5% 15.40 £ 150.00 £ 60.00 £ 2,309.58 £ 923.83 £ 3,233.41 (150mm Thk) RCC Concrete Slab 6.99 CM 5% 7.34 £ 220.00 £ 140.00 £ 1,614.69 £ 1,027.53 £ 2,642.22 Ground Solid Floor 46.60 SQM 5% 48.93 £ 120.00 £ 70.00 £ 5,871.60 £ 3,425.10 £ 9,296.70 £ 17,564.28 Superstructure Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total External Cavity Wall As; (2.8m H) 100mm Blockwork Inner side 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 50.00 £ 20.00 £ 1,470.00 £ 588.00 £ 2,058.00 125mm Cavity Insulation 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 20.00 £ 8.00 £ 588.00 £ 235.20 £ 823.20 112.5mm Brickwork outer Leaf 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 60.00 £ 24.00 £ 1,764.00 £ 705.60 £ 2,469.60 Plasterboard on inner sides on Dabs and Skimmed 28.00 SQM 5% 29.40 £ 15.00 £ 10.00 £ 441.00 £ 294.00 £ 735.00 Sealant as Required 20.00 Lin m 5% 21.00 £ 9.00 £ 4.00 £ 189.00 £ 84.00 £ 273.00 Internal Stud Wall (2.7m H) 50x100 mm Timber Studs @ 600mm C/C 42.80 SQM 5% 44.93 £ 40.00 £ 20.00 £ 1,797.39 £ 898.70 £ 2,696.09 12.5mm Plasterboards on both sides and Skimmed 85.54 SQM 5% 89.81 £ 15.00 £ 10.00 £ 1,347.19 £ 898.13 £ 2,245.32 75mm Isowool 1200 Acoustic Partition Roll Insulation 42.77 SQM 5% 44.91 £ 20.00 £ 8.00 £ 898.13 £ 359.25 £ 1,257.38 Head and sole Plates 47.52 Lin m 5% 49.90 £ 7.00 £ 4.00 £ 349.27 £ 199.58 £ 548.86 Sealant as Required 63.36 Lin m 5% 66.53 £ 8.00 £ 4.00 £ 532.22 £ 266.11 £ 798.34 Structure Framing 200x75mm C24 Floor Joists @ 400 24.18 SQM 5% 25.39 £ 80.00 £ 35.00 £ 2,031.12 £ 888.62 £ 2,919.74 200x75mm C24 Flat Roof Joists @ 400 24.04 SQM 5% 25.24 £ 80.00 £ 35.00 £ 2,019.36 £ 883.47 £ 2,902.83 Steel Beam 203x203x46 UC Steel Beam 37.02 Lin m 5% 38.87 £ 69.00 £ 138.00 £ 2,682.10 £ 5,364.20 £ 8,046.30 203x203x46 UC Column 12.00 Lin m 5% 12.60 £ 69.00 £ 138.00 £ 869.40 £ 1,738.80 £ 2,608.20 440x175x215 Pad Stone 8.00 EA 0% 8.00 £ 45.00 £ 1,650.00 £ 360.00 £ 13,200.00 £ 13,560.00 Lintel 1200mm Concrete Lintel 2.36 Lin m 5% 2.48 £ 45.00 £ 25.00 £ 111.51 £ 61.95 £ 173.46 650x325x225 Pier 2.00 EA 0% 2.00 £ 85.00 £ 120.00 £ 170.00 £ 240.00 £ 410.00 Floor Floor As: -22mm T & G Moisture Resistant Chipboard -100mm Rockwool Flexi Slab -2-12.5mm Plasterboard 24.18 SQM 5% 33.99 £ 95.00 £ 55.00 £ 3,229.05 £ 1,869.45 £ 5,098.50 Roofing Roof As; -24mm Versapanel Roof System -120mm Kingspan K107 insulation -Vapour Control Layer -18mm Exterior Grade Ply -52,5mm Kingspan K118 24.04 SQM 5% 25.24 £ 85.00 £ 45.00 £ 2,145.57 £ 1,135.89 £ 3,281.46 Roof Flashing 23.63 M 5% 24.81 £ 55.00 £ 25.00 £ 1,364.63 £ 620.29 £ 1,984.92 Exterior Work Fascia/ Eave 23.63 M 5% 24.81 £ 45.00 £ 25.00 £ 1,116.52 £ 620.29 £ 1,736.81 Upvc Gutter 10.89 M 5% 11.43 £ 67.00 £ 23.00 £ 766.11 £ 262.99 £ 1,029.11 Rainwater Pipe 6.00 M 5% 6.30 £ 67.00 £ 23.00 £ 422.10 £ 144.90 £ 567.00 £ 58,223.09 Finishes Q Unit Wastage Q /wastage Material Rate Labour Rate Hire Material costs Labour costs Equipment costs Sub Total Wall Finish Wall Tile 28.33 SQM 5% 29.75 £ 65.00 £ 50.00 £ 1,933.45 £ 1,487.27 £ 3,420.73 Wall Paint Wall Paint 122.58 SQM 5% 128.71 £ 8.50 £ 13.50 £ 1,094.03 £ 1,737.57 £ 2,831.60 Ceiling 12.5mm Ceiling Plasterboard 41.78 SQM 5% 43.87 £ 24.80 £ 10.60 £ 1,087.95 £ 465.01 £ 1,552.96 12.5mm 'MR' Ceiling Plasterboard 6.55 SQM 5% 6.88 £ 25.50 £ 10.60 £ 175.38 £ 72.90 £ 248.28 Floor Finish Timber FLoor 41.78 SQM 5% 43.87 £ 55.00 £ 45.00 £ 2,412.80 £ 1,974.11 £ 4,386.90 Tile Floor 6.55 SQM 5% 6.88 £ 65.00 £ 50.00 £ 447.04 £ 343.88 £ 790.91 Skirting Timber Skirting 34.25 M 10% 37.68 £ 14.20 £ 8.50 £ 534.99 £ 320.24 £ 855.22 £ 14,086.60

Following on from my introduction I'll skip forward to the interesting part. The following estimates are based off structural drawings and method in addition to the architects planning application. I had requested quotes to weathertight shell, 1st fix in place and plastered walls. There's a fair bit of demolition, propping and steelwork but I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. For our approx 18sqm extension to our existing 80sqm North London flat we have: Subtotal VAT Total inc VAT A* £145,000.00 £29,000.00 £174,000.00 B £0.00 £0.00 C £0.00 £0.00 D £0.00 £0.00 E* £160,000.00 £32,000.00 £192,000.00 F £0.00 £0.00 G £0.00 £0.00 H* £165,000.00 £33,000.00 £198,000.00 * quoted without site visit I had been hoping for around £100k + VAT but, given the fairly tight grouping, I'd say that this is probably what the average small builder business in London is going to quote. I'm seeing 2 more prospective contractors on site tomorrow and am waiting for the quote from one previous site visit to come through. In the meantime I will preprare some of the breakdown (I'll put it in my own terms so won't be directly sharing confidential info).

I'm going to try and be fairly active on the forum during the course of our North London extension build. Planning was granted a few weeks ago and we're now looking for contractors and trying to sort out party wall. It will be great to draw on the experience of the forum and share some insights.