ProDave

Give someone a decent house, and they break it.

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Todays job "my bathroom fan does not seem to be working"

 

I find a small development of houses, built somewhat better than the average developers house. These are reasonably well insulated, decent windows, UFH and were built with an Exhaust Air Heat Pump system.

 

The story goes the EAHP broke a couple of years ago, everyone he called could not fix it, so he had a new heating system installed.  A Mitsubishi ASHP and cylinder.  Nothing wrong with that.  Except in the process they disconnected the UFH and installed radiators instead (why) and left the property with no ventilation system, hence no bathroom fan.  I wonder too where the cooker hood vent pipe goes (probably nowhere)

 

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1 minute ago, lizzie said:

Poor bloke.  He is lucky to have found you @ProDave just a shame he didnt find you earlier.

I think the original unit was an Ecocent, which from what I hear have a reputation for parts corroding and becoming unrepairable.

 

The replacement HP  is fine, bur why radiators that probably have to run at a higher temperature? I would have kept the UFH.  The pipes are still there but the manifold has gone.

 

I am wondering what to do about the ventilation.  Fit a whole house ventilation or just a bathroom fan?

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I've heard a couple of cases where the tanks have corroded on the Ecocent.  Seems to be caused by the need to regularly replace a sacrificial anode, IIRC.  Both cases I've heard of were in Scotland, in soft water areas, so I have wondered if the faster than expected sacrificial anode depletion (if that was the cause) was due to the pH of the water.

 

Whole house ventilation seems a better bet, as it may well be that the house isn't that well ventilated now.  IIRC, the Ecocent had a pretty impressive airflow whilst it was heating the tank up, way more than a normal MVHR system.

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What I don't know is what heated the house? The Ecocent heated the hot water? would it even have managed all the HW heating or would it have needed an immersion heater top up.

 

The problem here seems to be the builder installed the system and the buyers knew nothing about it, then when they tried to get it repaired, could not find anyone than knew anything about it.  This is a problem that needs to be fixed if mass market housing is to move beyond a gas combi boiler.

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Dave I think you underestimate how well educated these forum members are. It fries my brain trying to understand the heating/cooling/hot water set ups some of you lot have!

 

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31 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What I don't know is what heated the house? The Ecocent heated the hot water? would it even have managed all the HW heating or would it have needed an immersion heater top up.

 

Yep, those EAHPs remind me of the cartoon of the becalmed sailor using bellows to blow on the sails.

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I made up my mind on the ecocent over the last few weeks. The mini air source heat pump is fine, but the cylinder, immersion heater and anode just ain't good enough, well that's the impression from my research. 

 

Going for a more expensive Joules Aero instead.  

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49 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What I don't know is what heated the house? The Ecocent heated the hot water? would it even have managed all the HW heating or would it have needed an immersion heater top up.

 

The problem here seems to be the builder installed the system and the buyers knew nothing about it, then when they tried to get it repaired, could not find anyone than knew anything about it.  This is a problem that needs to be fixed if mass market housing is to move beyond a gas combi boiler.

 

I think that is excellent comment.

 

I think for my next rental renovation I will be going for low profile ufh in a floating floor, also wit( electrics and plumbing within the same for maintainability ... assuming I can get adequate underfloor insulation below, but I am still keeping my eyes open for the best way to handle the ashp.

 

F

Edited by Ferdinand

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2 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

I am wondering what to do about the ventilation.  Fit a whole house ventilation or just a bathroom fan?

 

If I were doing te bathroom fan, I would do one with a constant trickle plus boost ... just for resilience.

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2 hours ago, ProDave said:

I would have kept the UFH.  The pipes are still there but the manifold has gone.

maybe there was a leak ?

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11 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

I made up my mind on the ecocent over the last few weeks. The mini air source heat pump is fine, but the cylinder, immersion heater and anode just ain't good enough, well that's the impression from my research. 

 

Going for a more expensive Joules Aero instead.  

 

 

I'm suspicious that the Joule Aero may really be from the same source as the Ecocent.  These all in one heat pump water heaters are very common in China, and there are a large number of models available from there that look very similar: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/all+in+one+heat+pump+water+heater.html?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=all+in+one+heat+pump+water+heater&isGalleryList=G The Ecocent was very definitely a Chinese import when I looked very closely at it a few years ago.  Ecocent wouldn't admit that it was, but I found an absolutely identical model available on Alibaba, the only difference was the name on the front panel.

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So a standalone pump connected to your choice of tank would be a better option? Like Ecocent Energy, or the Ecocent MVHR and kill two birds with one stone?

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4 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

I'm suspicious that the Joule Aero may really be from the same source as the Ecocent.  These all in one heat pump water heaters are very common in China, and there are a large number of models available from there that look very similar: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/all+in+one+heat+pump+water+heater.html?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=all+in+one+heat+pump+water+heater&isGalleryList=G The Ecocent was very definitely a Chinese import when I looked very closely at it a few years ago.  Ecocent wouldn't admit that it was, but I found an absolutely identical model available on Alibaba, the only difference was the name on the front panel.

 

Without sounding well.... the video seems to suggest this being put together in UK or Ireland.

 

https://www.jouleuk.co.uk/complete-renewable-heating-solutions/

 

My understanding is that the cylinder, anode and immersion heater are more robust and require a lot less maintenance. I have considered setup like @dpmiller suggests utilising a megaflow with a solar coil, but I think it might just over complicate the system.

 

Our one will just do our hot water. The system to me seems to combine a number of different jobs. Hot water cylinder, immersion heater, small heat pump and also to assist with ventilation with ducts in the bathrooms to suck vapour away. The cost of the tank of a 260l tank is £2750, but I wonder how that compares with other set-ups?

 

My hope is that the small heat pump will tick away at heating the tank during the day whilst everybody is at work/school.

 

 

 

 

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The video is of RM Cylinders, and shows UVCs being manufactured AFAICS.  No sign of any heat pump manufacture.  Maybe they do design and manufacture these all-in-one heat pump/cylinders.  Be interesting to see what's under the covers, especially the details of the heat pump assembly.

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