Looking to Build and Eco Home on a Budget

[Pemu]

Good afternoon everyone

I'm on the verge of buying an end of terrace plot in London (formally someone's garage and half their garden). 

I'm really keen on making the home as ecological as possible: Net Zero would be fantastic.

I also want to add a basement to the build. 

I can't afford to be extravagant based on my income and borrowing capacity. I'm looking forward to a lot of DIY (I'm a keen, semi-competent DIYer). I'm daunted by the prospect of project-managing it as well but will have to do it to try to save money. 

I was really happy to find this forum via Google (and then see it recommended elsewhere) and am looking forward to learning from everyone here.

To begin with, can anyone recommend any good blogs or YouTube series that will help me understand the basics of the process from end to end, perhaps through someone else's journey?

I came across this really good blog and video series for building a garden room and was hoping for something similar for a self build home in London:

http://www.alidymock.com

 

Best wishes for all

[joe90]

Hi @Pemu and welcome, for starters there is no such thing as a stupid question here, stupid is not asking.. I for one have learnt sooo much from this forum and I am a retired small time builder!,!. There are blogs here about various builds, @JSHarris fir starters is very comprehensive. Search fir various topics replayed to your questions, we are all very friendly ?.

[Big Neil]

rammed earth, rammed earth with tyres, eco bricks - oooo so many exciting things for you to read about. And as mr 90 says don't feel daft. Most of my questions probably seem odd to those answering them, but there's always an answer out there!!!

[gravelld]

https://passivehouseplus.ie/magazine/new-build/longford-self-build-goes-certified-passive-on-a-budget
 

https://paultestaarchitecture.co.uk/news/RoCo_DoGoods_presentation.pdf

 

Avoid the bling (including green bling), DIY as much as you can. Save money on fittings (they can come later), spend money on the fabric.

Edited May 2, 2019 by gravelld

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

If you have an end of terrace plot I assume your build will be joined to the house next door?  In which case there will be a need to make it fit in with the surroundings, so probably timber frame with a brick or rendered skin to match the surrounding houses.

 

Basement will add a lot of cost and work and uncertainty.  I would personally try to avoid that.

[Pemu]

Thanks for all of your replies already. 

Yeah, basement will be a cost but if I can do it at a relatively good price, I want to add the floor for futue-proofing. It's somewhere I'm willing to shell out more. 

If I can do it for less than the value it would add to the house, I'll be content and I assume that's relevant to the postcode. Will try do those calculations in due course.  

Yes, it's will be adjoined to the neighbours. 

I'll be reading up on some of the things posted above and then getting the ball rollin with some of my own questions in the near future, hopefully. 

 

[Pemu]

By the way, in the past 24 hours I've come across the possible exemption from CIL and VAT on goods and labour. 

Are there any other key, general money saving schemes (that can perhaps save you 4 of 5 digit sums) that I should be aware of from the outset?

I'll be looking for the smaller details later but just general ones to begin with. 

[Jeremy Harris]

33 minutes ago, Pemu said:

By the way, in the past 24 hours I've come across the possible exemption from CIL and VAT on goods and labour. 

Are there any other key, general money saving schemes (that can perhaps save you 4 of 5 digit sums) that I should be aware of from the outset?

I'll be looking for the smaller details later but just general ones to begin with. 

 

Yes, self builds are CIL exempt, but care needs to be taken with the way that the CIL exemption is applied for in order to be sure CIL isn't applied.  The VAT position is a bit complex, but essentially all materials used in the build can have the VAT reclaimed at the end (and the definition of the end of the build may not be completion - it's a bit of a potential minefield) and labour used for the build itself should be zero rated.  Materials used as a part of a supply and fit contract should also be zero rated.  Some services used during the build, like surveyors, structural engineers, skips, etc aren't zero rated for VAT though.

 

You need to be aware that your local authority may try to start charging council tax before completion.  They can start to charge as soon as the property meets the definition of being a rateable hereditament, and that can be met long before completion.  There are ways to stop this, by making sure that the house cannot meet the requirements of a rateable hereditament, but some local authorities will try it on (mine did, they even employ someone to drive around building sites, sneak in and see if they think they can start charging).

[SteamyTea]

Hello and welcome.

Rather than get hung up on materials and techniques at this stage, spend a week or two reading up about basic building physics.

This may sound daunting, but it isn't really.

The main things you need to know are how different materials perform both mechanically and thermally, as you basically want to make an airtight box that won't let any heat in or out.

The second thing is concerning your 'eco' bit.  The word eco is rather a catchall for whatever people want it to mean.  This gives marketing people a lot of leeway to sell whatever they like. A bit of timber cladding on a thermally leaky house is not eco.

Also don't get hung up on all the possibilities of what could be done, work within your budget.  Having said this, if the orientation is good, fit PV as it can be cheaper than a tiled roof.

[TheMitchells]

1 hour ago, gravelld said:

https://passivehouseplus.ie/magazine/new-build/longford-self-build-goes-certified-passive-on-a-budget
 

I would thoroughly recommend having a read of past copies of the Passivehouseplus magazines.  I subscribed to them for a while and they cover lots of passivhaus builds, usually giving all the costs and materials/items used.  really useful and shows how to build well with no extre costs than a 'normal' (cold/leaky/unhealthy) house.

Good luck with the build.?

[Russell griffiths]

Hi, what sort of budget do you have and what part of London 

 

i cant see you getting a basement for under £75-100 grand

party wall agreement, having to hold next doors house in position whilst you dig out for the basement, muck away costs. 

 

I think a basement in Shepherd’s Bush would be twice the cost of one out in Northamptonshire 

 

just trying to be a realist. 

[Sue B]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I would recommend a visit to some of the workshops at the Swindon NSBRC.   They do free sessions on passive houses - there are also some chargeable courses but we haven’t been on those.  

 

Do the sums carefully regarding a basement - I suspect you will be shocked at the cost and better to realise now that you can’t afford it than after you have met your new neighbours and scared them to death unnecessarily.

[Bitpipe]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

 

Basement will add a lot of cost and work and uncertainty.  I would personally try to avoid that.

 

Welcome - basements are not cheap but on a space constrained site can add a lot of valuable space. I built mine for around £1000/sqm.

 

They can also act as the foundations of your house, especially if you are in clay and need to go 2-3m deep with trenches etc.

 

Planners can to look upon them favourably vs above ground footprint - our basement is 30% of our internal footprint and was added after initial planning was achieved (new planning app) - no issues.

 

The main challenge with basements is understanding what you're building into, some some spend is required on surveys (known as ground investigation) to understand the underlying strata, water table etc. Only then can the basement be properly designed (by a Structural engineer) and then costed.

 

Avoid 'basement experts' as they charge a massive premium for what is a standard construction job for a decent groundwork firm.

 

You can built a basement from poured concrete in formwork/shuttering and put a timber frame building on top (as I did) . Others do them in ICF and carry that up for the whole house structure. 

 

 

[Pocster]

51 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Welcome - basements are not cheap but on a space constrained site can add a lot of valuable space. I built mine for around £1000/sqm.

 

They can also act as the foundations of your house, especially if you are in clay and need to go 2-3m deep with trenches etc.

 

Planners can to look upon them favourably vs above ground footprint - our basement is 30% of our internal footprint and was added after initial planning was achieved (new planning app) - no issues.

 

The main challenge with basements is understanding what you're building into, some some spend is required on surveys (known as ground investigation) to understand the underlying strata, water table etc. Only then can the basement be properly designed (by a Structural engineer) and then costed.

 

Avoid 'basement experts' as they charge a massive premium for what is a standard construction job for a decent groundwork firm.

 

You can built a basement from poured concrete in formwork/shuttering and put a timber frame building on top (as I did) . Others do them in ICF and carry that up for the whole house structure. 

 

 

This is all true !

Is a bit of a learning curve ...

[Ferdinand]

5 hours ago, Pemu said:

Thanks for all of your replies already. 

Yeah, basement will be a cost but if I can do it at a relatively good price, I want to add the floor for futue-proofing. It's somewhere I'm willing to shell out more. 

If I can do it for less than the value it would add to the house, I'll be content and I assume that's relevant to the postcode. Will try do those calculations in due course.  

Yes, it's will be adjoined to the neighbours. 

I'll be reading up on some of the things posted above and then getting the ball rollin with some of my own questions in the near future, hopefully. 

 

 

I think you want to pay very careful attention to your building envelope, but also the overheads of building it,

 

I would be looking at:

 

- Building a half basement in combination with rooms in the roof ... that could give you your extra floor without digging such large holes, and disturbing your neighbours so much, whilst using less material. Half basements are a trad London form. You will still a Party Wall Agreement, But there should be less risk of serious objection.

- The potential trade offs between the extra floor area for a terrace vs te extra value of a detached with an adequate side path. I lived in about 5 areas of London and detached did have a significant premium.

- But do a gap at least wide enough to get down and build, rather than a cat-trap gap.

- Consider things like minidigger access to the back, and avoiding if possible any requirement for needing anything from third party property owners or the council. If you end up with 2 side paths, make one minimal (scaffold min size), and one as generous as possible.

 

i would probably want some sort of advice once I had explored my options, as a sanity check and because in London small things make big differences.

 

Ferdinand

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Pemu]

Thanks again everyone. I'm keenly taking note of aIl the suggestions so far and will look into them in due course. 

On the topic of basements, can anyone recommend a documented build or blog for a house with a basement that includes a decent breakdown of the costs, etc., so I can understand the processes and costs a bit better?

Thanks. 

[PeterW]

Basement costs are how long is a piece of string. 

 

Ground conditions for example..? How high is the water table ..? If you have a high water table in clay, you have the triple whammy of having to shutter the site, pay top whack for disposal, and use a waterproof basement system probably with membranes or other waterproofing systems. 

 

If it’s a low water table on sandstone, you have none of the issues above and the costs could be less than half or a third. 

 

There is  no simple answer without digging a hole ....

[Bitpipe]

5 hours ago, PeterW said:

Basement costs are how long is a piece of string. 

 

Ground conditions for example..? How high is the water table ..? If you have a high water table in clay, you have the triple whammy of having to shutter the site, pay top whack for disposal, and use a waterproof basement system probably with membranes or other waterproofing systems. 

 

If it’s a low water table on sandstone, you have none of the issues above and the costs could be less than half or a third. 

 

There is  no simple answer without digging a hole ....

 

Or a series of very small holes.

 

We had to spend £5-6k on ground investigation to be confident of what was under our feet and to allow the SE to design the basement. 

 

We were prepared to walk away from the idea if it fell outside of our budget - which it almost did when there was a fear of made ground (requiring piling)

 

On upside 

• Our basement was roughly 11x10m (so excavation about 1m wider all round) and we did not fall foul of party wall as neighbours were >6m away. 
• Clay/gravel/chalk  strata with no water until 6m down.
• Large open site with plenty of vehicle access so we could accommodate 3x20t trucks at a time during excavation which sped things up.
• Most of excavate was gravel so easy to dig and it did not bulk up (clay bulks up 2x and chalk 3x when out of ground).
• Did basement works in fine August / September weather also.
• Did not require any sheet piling for the hole, was able to batter back sides. 
• Warrantied waterproof concrete was sufficient, no membranes or sumps & pumps.

On downside

• potential for chalk solution features (i.e. holes) meant that slab was 300mm thick and had lots of rebar. Walls also 300mm thick as they were cantilevered from slab - our choice to have an 'open top' box vs closed box (which would have been more structurally rigid and potentially needed thinner walls off setting extra concrete on lid.

Spent £120k to get a 108m2 open box which included demolition of original house and all services or ducts aid (drainage, water & power/gas from existing).

 

So you could say that £100k was basement itself. Saved whatever traditional foundations / raft would have cost.

 

I don't think you could have had better variables than this and we had some good economies of scale.

 

[Ferdinand]

12 hours ago, Pemu said:

Thanks again everyone. I'm keenly taking note of aIl the suggestions so far and will look into them in due course. 

On the topic of basements, can anyone recommend a documented build or blog for a house with a basement that includes a decent breakdown of the costs, etc., so I can understand the processes and costs a bit better?

Thanks. 

 

I think you need a London basement not just a basement.

 

There are a few on Grand Designs, including the chap with a movable tiles floor that went down and turned into a swimming pool (Kensington or Chelsea, next to the railway iirc), and another chap (2018?) who did a real budget build in the East somewhere near the DLR.

 

Ferdinand

 

[Pemu]

 

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I think you need a London basement not just a basement.

 

There are a few on Grand Designs, including the chap with a movable tiles floor that went down and turned into a swimming pool (Kensington or Chelsea, next to the railway iirc), and another chap (2018?) who did a real budget build in the East somewhere near the DLR.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Thanks

Is this the East London one you mentioned?

https://www.granddesigns.tv/east-london/

https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/367-q-a-with-grand-designs-home-owners-joe-stuart-and-lina-nilsson

https://warehome.co.uk

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

14 hours ago, Pemu said:

 

 

Thanks

Is this the East London one you mentioned?

https://www.granddesigns.tv/east-london/

https://www.granddesignsmagazine.com/grand-designs-houses/367-q-a-with-grand-designs-home-owners-joe-stuart-and-lina-nilsson

https://warehome.co.uk

 

 

 

 

That’s the one. Watching people cope with tricky situations is a good way to learn.

 

Quote

Did you have any disasters that weren't caught on camera?

'I think Grand Designs caught even the non-events! I don’t think there is anything you didn’t get.

 

Well the basement was a complete disaster – and that was really the only big setback – I mean the other things were just supply let downs. I had an injury half way through that stopped me for a while but other than that, it was just a lot to do.'

 

?

 

I think the lesson there is planning and don’t try and cut corners or innovate on things that can go very wrong very easily.

 

Eg When playing shinty, skimp on your socks not your support strap.

 

F

 

(* Shinty is a Scottish Highland game superficially similar to hockey, except you are allowed to use both sides of the stick, tackle with the stick, play balls in the air, and shoulder barge, for a start. Field Hockey is for wusses.)

Edited May 4, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Tennentslager]

24 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

For shinty skimp on your socks not your support strap.

 

New one for me @Ferdinand and a beauty.

 

[Bitpipe]

On 03/05/2019 at 17:33, Ferdinand said:

 

That’s the one. Watching people cope with tricky situations is a good way to learn.

 

 

?

 

I think the lesson there is planning and don’t try and cut corners or innovate on things that can go very wrong very easily.

 

Eg When playing shinty, skimp on your socks not your support strap.

 

F

 

(* Shinty is a Scottish Highland game superficially similar to hockey, except you are allowed to use both sides of the stick, tackle with the stick, play balls in the air, and shoulder barge, for a start. Field Hockey is for wusses.)

 

But is it more violent than hurling which lets you grab the ball in the air and pick it off the ground, resulting in broken fingers etc..?

[SteamyTea]

On 03/05/2019 at 17:33, Ferdinand said:

When playing shinty, skimp on your socks not your support strap.

Poofs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin-kicking

[dpmiller]

"In modern competitions the combatants are required to wear soft shoes and stuff their trouser legs with straw for padding "

 

poofs indeed.