GemmaG Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Hi all! New here as trying to find the answer to this is proving hard work! I have recently bought a house on a corner plot. The wall to the side of the house is 1/2 brick thick and over 2m tall. It is original to the house and starting to see the end of its life. As to rebuild it to the height would require it to be 3x as thick it would cost a hell of a lot being 9m long so a fence would be more appropriate however behind the wall is a patch of grass that seems to be unused. It could be highways or council but no one maintains it - we have started cutting the grass there - it is thick with ivy over 10 years old (google earth) which has caused the wall to fail as roots have grown to above the top of the wall and are pulling it down. I assume that to pull the wall down and replace with a fence of similar height would need planning permission? The wall cannot be seen from the road as it is covered entirely with ivy. There are no sightline issues with the neighbours as the wall curves away from their property at the back of us. A 1m wall is not an option as I have a dog who could easily jump that and I cannot bring a new fence further in to my land as part of the old wall that separates me and our back neighbours is solid and therefore remaining, this is also 1 full brick thick instead of a half. Confused as to what options we have. Council will only talk to us if we pay an advice fee. Not sure if we are even classed as adjacent to the highway as the grass verge between our wall and path is 1.5-2.5m wide. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 You can remove the wall and replace with a fence as long as you are not listed, conservation area, PD rights removed or covenant in your deeds restricts this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 None of those things affect us at all. The concern is that the council may see it as "highway adjacent" in which case 1m is all that we would be permitted to put up but that is simply not high enough with a dog that can jump it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Are you sure the overgrown bit is yours? If so I would put up a 2m fence closer to the road and just wait and see if anyone complains. If they do worst case is you have to move it back to exactly where the wall was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) That part is definitely not ours. We don't think it belongs to the council as they don't maintain it. It could be highways for sightlines but would have assumed they would have kept it cleared if that was the case. Or it could have originally belonged to the builders of the housing area and they are no longer in business. On the deeds that patch actually should extend over next doors front drive and all the way down the length of our front garden but next door have it as their garden and our hedge is butted up to the path as it has been for at least 10 years. (google earth again) To remove that wall and put in a fence would mean removing all the ivy leaving our new fence on show. Edited May 1, 2019 by GemmaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 If you are replacing a faulty wall with a fence of the same height and in the same location I can't see it matters that anyone can see your new fence. Leave the ivy in the ground and it will soon grow up the new fence. If you wanted to be cheeky, put the fence further out. If nobody complains then after a number of years you can claim it under adverse possession as it sounds like your neighbour has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 I think they have done without doing it officially as the deeds show that ground as not on either of our properties. We didn't even notice it during the purchase as we moved from a fair distance away. I know they would notice that though. I'm not bothered about gaining land just want to put a fence up with getting grief about it being a full size one. Would hate to draw attention then it be brought to light that neither of us actually own a large part of our front gardens lol. Plus the corner part of the wall would be staying so that kind of draws the line as to where it would go. I really appreciate everyones help here. Posted on some other forums that were not quite as welcoming! x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 take the wall down, re-use the bricks to build the wall to where you want it but build butts into it to support the 1/2 brick thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 So just put up a fence where the wall was. Still the very worst that could happen is you have to replace the fence with a rebuilt wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Ok - a suggestion if you can afford it is to rebuild the wall double thickness and put a 3ft fence on top. It’s dog proof but also as “permanent” as your original. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Liking your thinking there Peter, will have to really consider that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Have you considered removing the ivy and repointing the wall?, is it that bad?, if it’s not leaning or disintegrating it’s amazing how repointing can revive a brick wall. (And a small cost relative to replacing it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, GemmaG said: As to rebuild it to the height would require it to be 3x as thick it would cost a hell of a lot being 9m long £2-3k like that? You could save up to about half of the work by building it out of in-out panels where each pair of panels overlap at the ends to make posts. A 9m fence would be - what - about £700 if done by a fence-man? Ferdinand Edited May 2, 2019 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 It's beyond repointing. One section leans back where the wall has broken in the middle. The insanely thick ivy is holding it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Ferdinand said: £2-3k like that? You could save up to about half of the work by building it out of in-out panels where each pair of panels overlap at the ends to make posts. A 9m fence would be - what - about £700 if done by a fence-man? Ferdinand I'd expect a 1.5 brick thick wall to be more than that. I would much rather use fencing somehow incorporating the bottom few rows of bricks that are acually 1 brick thick. These ideas are all good providing the council keeps away lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, GemmaG said: It's beyond repointing. One section leans back where the wall has broken in the middle. The insanely thick ivy is holding it up. Ah, enough said. Chances are it’s built with lime if it’s that old so picking the bricks off should be easy, if they are fairly good I would rebuild it in single brick with piers at intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, GemmaG said: I'd expect a 1.5 brick thick wall to be more than that. I would much rather use fencing somehow incorporating the bottom few rows of bricks that are acually 1 brick thick. These ideas are all good providing the council keeps away lol Yes - if you can justify (photos!) "Repairing my Wall" then you are safe. Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, GemmaG said: I'd expect a 1.5 brick thick wall to be more than that. I would much rather use fencing somehow incorporating the bottom few rows of bricks that are acually 1 brick thick. These ideas are all good providing the council keeps away lol Why do you require 1.5 brick thick - I thought up to 2m was 1 brick (ie 225 mm)? Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) I am not a fan of fence panels but have installed fences fir people using post, rails and either taper edge boards or hit and miss boards (my preference) and they last far longer than fence panels. Using bricks at the base will be good to keep the fence wood away from the rot zone which is next to the soil and stop dogs or vermin digging under the fence. I have also found that using 5” x 4” posts worth the extra small cost. My fences never blew down ? Edited May 2, 2019 by joe90 Add Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Why do you require 1.5 brick thick - I thought up to 2m was 1 brick (ie 225 mm)? Ferdinand I was just following this https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/20/fences_gates_and_garden_walls/2 The wall as it is has 3 piers per 4m section so 6 piers in total and those are 1 brick thick. The end part of the wall that has a gate attatched is fully 1 brick thick and curved and that has pivotted about 2 rows of bricks up. Wind and ivy = wall being swivelled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GemmaG Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: Yes - if you can justify (photos!) "Repairing my Wall" then you are safe. Ferdinand Think that's going to be key, keeping some of the original wall then it cant be seen as brand new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 No. Remove the unsafe wall and replace it with a fence. If you are concerned, email highways informing them of your intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 When fighting our planning application our neighbour (tosser) told us he owned the grass verge between his wall and highway about 1m, on talking to a very helpful chap at highways he was wrong (not that he would admit it!!). The verge is counted as highway in fact it being the predecessor to a pavement, somewhere for people and horses to walk if they choose. The boundary is the wall, hedge or ditch. if you leave the bottom couple of brick courses (repointed) and erect the fence on top no one can argue, especially if you photograph the leaning wall of pitza as evidence, I imagine if you remove the ivy it will look even worse so you have good cause to make it safe. Simples ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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