Spray PUR foam. Why isn't it popular?

[Digmixfill]

I've come across two spray PUR offerings a couple of times while searching for things insulation.

 

DOW froth-pak

Foamseal

 

On the surface they seem like they'd be useful. Good insulation values, closed cell, DIYable. What's not to like?

 

Is there a reason (other than cost) that they're not a popular choice for DIY?

[Cpd]

Portable twin cylinder pack with sufficient material to cover 600 board feet (60ft x 10ft x 1in depth).

£ 620.40 (£ 517.00 excl VAT) each

1 hour ago, Digmixfill said:

(other than cost) 

Apart from a very specific situation I think the cost Just makes this a no goer for large areas. Others on here have Used sprayed insulation  with great results but it was not PUR 

[Onoff]

So if does 60'x10' at 1" thick. That's nom 20x3m so 60sqm. 

 

A 25mm sheet of pir is about 2.9sqm call it 3sqm to make it easier. So 20 sheets. Call it £10 per sheet. £200 all in. 3 times cheaper than spray.

 

Check out Icynene. @PeterStarck had it done.

 

 

[Cpd]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

A 25mm sheet of pir is about 2.9sqm call it 3sqm to make it easier. So 20 sheets. Call it £10 per sheet. £200 all in. 3 times cheaper than spray.

 

Check out Icynene. @PeterStarck had it done.

I did not have the will to work it out @Onoff so thanks for that. 

 

[Digmixfill]

Obviously i've been looking at this with my irregular cavity in mind, but it should fill all of the void and would give a large difference in u value over blown bead for the same cavity size. I thought it would be particularly useful for people with an old slim 50mm cavity to fill.

 

 

@Onoff i did look at icynene but i didn't spot any DIY option with them.

 

Edit: It's about 4 times the cost of dritherm 32.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Digmixfill

[Onoff]

6 minutes ago, Digmixfill said:

Obviously i've been looking at this with my irregular cavity in mind, but it should fill all of the void and would give a large difference in u value over blown bead for the same cavity size. I thought it would be particularly useful for people with an old slim 50mm cavity to fill.

 

 

@Onoff i did look at icynene but i didn't spot any DIY option with them.

 

Edit: It's about 4 times the cost of dritherm 32.

 

It's not a diy option afaik. 

[Gone West]

13 hours ago, Onoff said:

Check out Icynene. @PeterStarck had it done.

Icynene is definitely not DIY. Can only be done through installers.

[Alexphd1]

I am doing open cell spray (icynene type) insulation DIY.  Big learning curve though.

[Digmixfill]

On 07/04/2019 at 09:48, Alexphd1 said:

I am doing open cell spray (icynene type) insulation DIY.  Big learning curve though.

 

I'd be very interested to hear how you got on with this, and what the cost was?

[Onoff]

There's a Hell of a lot a waste to trim off level with the timber frame if I recall. Gauging how much the stuff will expand must be nigh on impossible.

 

 

 

 

I did my small shed, well the floor and two walls as a bit of an experiment with cans. Got so bored in the end I did then other walls with EPS.

[Onoff]

Good blog entry here ref Icynene:

 

 

[Digmixfill]

11 hours ago, Onoff said:

Good blog entry here ref Icynene:

 

Thanks for the blog link.

 

I've considered either building the inner leaf to roof height and then injecting foam from the inside, or filling behind a couple of rows of block before i resin the ties in for the next two rows.

[Alexphd1]

We sprayed one set of barrels a few months ago and spraying again tomorrow, will report back.

[Mr Punter]

Maybe it would be cost effective to have 50mm pir sheets against the blockwork and fill the residual cavity with bonded graphite eps beads.

[Digmixfill]

I've pondered pir boards with foam as the additional filler to take up the residual. I don't like the idea of the beads being blown in from outside. I think the holes required are too large and would look a bit naff. I suppose they could be blown in from the inside if drilled through the block and pir.

 

Ideally though i'd like a DIY solution and so far the only way i've found to do bead DIY is to buy a blower machine

 

 

 

[scottishjohn]

I was talking to an insulation  spray  contractor today 

as i may be having a change of plan and re instating a 200 year old  building 

anyway 

my question to him was  is it water proof?

only closed cell is fully water proof 

he said they use it on barn conversions for exactly that purpose-

 I am considering spraying whole inside of  the building walls --then basically building a TF house inside 

 a 30mm layer is enough for that job -- so seems maybe a good way for old buildings to stop moisture penetration through 

old outer walls  . will be running it by my architect  if I get it--

open cell  will not make a total water proof barrier 

[Digmixfill]

On 07/04/2019 at 09:48, Alexphd1 said:

I am doing open cell spray (icynene type) insulation DIY.  Big learning curve though.

 

I approached icynene about DIY and got the reply "Thank you for your enquiry, our products are only fitted by specialist contractors and do not come in DIY format"

 

Which spray foam are you using?

[Alexphd1]

Sorry forgot to report back. 500m2 sprayed at 400mm. No big issues. Very little to cut back. 

 

Icynene is just another brand (who only sell opencell insulation), lapolla their big UK rival have both closed and open cell but both only sell to approved installers. We came across 2 or 3 suppliers in the UK who where happy to sell us but ended up buying from Ireland. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Alexphd1

[Onoff]

So you did this yourself?

 

No offence but it doesn't look filled to the full joist depth. Is that an issue? Or had it not expanded in the photos?

 

Is that why very little cutting back?

[Digmixfill]

Your floor looks very unspoilt. Did you use dust sheets or did it just not splatter during application?

[Alexphd1]

We actually hung a extra rafter between the hanging post and ceiling and the target was stop the insulation somewhere in the 2nd rafter so no/very little cutting back was required where the plaster board fixes to. Downside 9f this we lost a bit more headroom. The main rafter from the wall to the ridge beam was 100% covered. I will add more photos tomorrow to make clear. 

 

Unfortunately we had a fair bit of splatter. 

[scottishjohn]

for weird shape houses with lots of funny spaces 

maybe a combination of both spray(diy kits) and the other types  will be a good compromise ?

what my local  installer told me was 

sheet insulation will be cheaper if you are fitting it yourself and presuming you are taking the time to make good fitting sheet insulation --a long job  

but if paying for complete job to be done for you,then its about the same by the time you have paid for fitting of sheet ,but foam will be definitely air tight 

and done in one day !!

 this is what i have been told 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Alexphd1]

Unfortunately we where a lot longer than a day, more like a week! Possibly the learning curve had something to with this and we had 4-5 passes to make up depth. 

 

This photo may give you a better idea of the extra rafter between the hanging post and ceiling.

[scottishjohn]

If you have 400mm thickness i am guessing that is way more than was required to replace normal pir foam fitment  in a std house ,which is what i assume his time was based on whne quoting me comparison 

what thickness of pir does your 400mm equate to ?

[Patrick]

In regards to the Topic, I can just assume that it partly isn't more popular because of Health issues. Maybe not a problem for many, but it definitely put me off. It is just not tested long enough, specially the icynene type, to tell the long term effects. I was looking into it for quite a while because I found it a very good idea to sprayfoam the entire house, but there aren't any independent studies for long term effects out yet. University of Toronto doing one at the moment but this is to be released in the further future. There are chemical analyses of the foam which suggest that its PROBABLY alright, but I wouldn't want to rely on a probably. Asbestos used to be absolutely brilliant, one of the best materials you could imagine. Until a few decades later. And now it's just official poison. Might be just overly cautious but I didn't want to risk it.