Check mate!

[EverHopefull]

Hi, I guess I find myself in a fairly normal situation for a self builder?

After 6 months of the normal wrangling to purchase a next door property and preventing a developer from muscling in on the very quiet area I live, finally it is done. I remortgaged my current property and now own the new place outright. Excellent, what is the issue you ask?

Both myself and SWMBO are currently over the success of winning the property and now overwhelmed with the feelings of doom over how we can manoeuvre financially to build anything.

It's very early days but tension has already prompted the "we're screwed" and "Why did we" moments.

Maybe we should just sell it again but something tells me no, there is a way!

Probably stupidly we had had a meeting with a local architect and to pile more negatives into the equation they are quoting £48k (~11%) for proposed services to replace the old ruin with a fairly restrained 3 bed. We would sell our current home to pay off the entire mortgage and finance the start of the new build whilst living with family. It all sounds good in theory but can't ignore these feelings of over commitment.

Is this a normal stage?

[Triassic]

Don’t do anything in haste, sit back and relax. You are not doomed. People here will be along with great advice and positive encouragement. 

 

Regarding the £48k, he’s having a laugh! I’ve paid around £20k for all my professional services, Architect, structural engineers, land surveyors, bat experts etc. Some here have done the designs themselves and simply used local architectural technicians to draw up the schemes for planning, saving thousands, maybe next your case 10s of thousands.

 

if I were you I’d go and read a few of the blogs on here. They usually have photos and in depth descriptions that may help clarify what you want, need or desire. Before I did anything my wife and I wrote design brief and a a wish list, along photos of the element we liked.

 

if all else fails come back and discuss your ideas here.

 

Good luck.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Triassic

[PeterW]

First off ... Congratulations.!!!!

 

Now... Start making a list of what you want the house to be. Then go round 3 or 4 architects and ask for prices based on your list and a rough design ...

 

The secret with selfbuilding is never take the first estimate ..!!!

[ToughButterCup]

59 minutes ago, EverHopefull said:

[...]

It's very early days but tension has already prompted the "we're screwed" and "Why did we" moments.

[...]

Is this a normal stage?

 

Yes.

What matters is your reaction and your joint reaction. Your reaction, hers, and how you both see it. One or other, but not both equally committed: tears at or before bed time. 

59 minutes ago, EverHopefull said:

[...]

Both myself and SWMBO are [...] now overwhelmed with the feelings of doom over how we can manoeuvre financially to build anything.

[...]

 

Brass tacks time.

Why doom? Not enough money?

Welcome to the club. In my direct experience, there's only 2 or maybe three here for whom finance is not an issue (out of 1000 + members)

I (we) went from ' Yeah, we'll have money to spare at the end of this ' to doing  all of the semi skilled and grunt work. Briefly put, compromises - thousands of them. You might call it waking up to hard reality. Stretched time scales, squeezed budget, infuriating lack of control. Even @JSHarris for all his expertise and deep knowledge  got bitten hard a few times. 

 

@PeterW above points to the core issue. Leg work: network. With the emphasise on work. 

 

59 minutes ago, EverHopefull said:

[...]

It all sounds good in theory but can't ignore these feelings of over commitment.

 

I'm four years in to the build. And still this very morning, I have to screw up courage together out there and get on with it. Because I lack control. Am too committed.

 

You will find BH members unequivocally supportive. This is a support network second (online)  to none.

[vivienz]

Even though i'm in the final stages of my build and everything has gone well, I still have regular moments of panic.  They range from financial ones to figuring out how to tidily finish off the gap between cladding and windows and a whole host of other things.  Your feelings aren't unusual at all, working out how to handle them is a good strategy.

 

As for your architect, just what are they going to provide for that £48k? Is there project management in there as well?  I paid ours about £5k for the design/planning permission stage and about £4k for the building regs submission.  I'd want something super special for £48k.  Shop around and find someone you think will listen to you from the start.

 

Congratulations and good luck

[Jeremy Harris]

As above, some of us didn't use an architect.  In our case we didn't, not because of the cost (at that stage we still thought we had plenty of spare cash in the budget) but because we couldn't find one we could have worked with.

 

An architect can definitely add something, the question is really whether the nature of the house and plot would really benefit from that, some may, some may not.  Architectural technicians are both cheaper and more used to domestic scale work (the majority of UK houses aren't designed by architects, apparently).  If using a build company that include detail design in their package (as is often the case with timber frame companies) then you could even do the outline design yourself (we did this, a steep learning curve, but I don't regret it).

 

£48k seems silly money to me.  When we were looking around the cost of using an architect to design the house and oversee the build was around 15% of the completed house cost.  £48k implies a completed house cost of around £320k. 

 

The really big question is how much time you can afford to put in to the project.  Those of us who have gone down the route of reducing build cost as much as possible all tend to have put in a great deal of our own time.  If you're not in a position to be able to spare the time then the costs are likely to be a fair bit greater.  There's nothing particularly difficult in building a house, but it does involve learning about a wide range of things that most people probably aren't that well aware of.

[Sue B]

And breathe...............

 

Yes, your feelings are completely normal.  

 

However, it is also the most exciting time of the new build - everything open and ready for you to choose what you want.  

My advice would be to go to a few homebuilding type shows, there are plenty of seminars over every topic possible.  I would wait for a little while before going to an architect, you want your ideas for your house to be the main driver behind the house rather than an architects best guess at what you want.  Visiting a whole host of seminars (the tickets are normally available free if you book in advance) will initially start to confuse you with the overwhelming choices, but after a few nights to sleep on the ideas, you should start to know what you want out of the house.

 

Welcome to the rollercoaster.

[recoveringbuilder]

but it does involve learning about a wide range of things that most people probably aren't thatwell aware of.

definitely right there, think it’s one of the hardest things that you have no-one to discuss problems with other than each other because nobody knows what you are talking about.

at work I was introduced to a new member of staff and they were told ‘Christine is building a house, ha ha not personally ‘ people at work have no idea how much you have to put into it even with builders on site the buck stops with you and my colleagues had no idea that I was probably spending as much if not more time on the house build than I was at work, that’s why I found build hub a great place to sound off because you are speaking to like minded people.

[newhome]

50 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

You will find BH members unequivocally supportive. This is a support network second (online)  to none.

 

Lots of great advice above so I’ll just emphasise a point made by @recoveringacademic. The answer to many of your fears, issues, and periods of what seem at the time to be monumental challenges is BuildHub. An amazing support network here. Between its members we do empathy, practical advice, technical advice, little kicks up the proverbial when needed et al. You may feel fearful and helpless at times but there will always be someone on here to point you in the right direction and get you back on track. A problem shared and all that, and please do share. There is no such thing as a stupid question here. When you wake up in the night stressing about the latest little thing, BH is here for you to share with the community. 

[ProDave]

Do a basic financial plan.

 

So you have a mortgage on the present house, but own the ruin outright.  How much equity is there  in the existing house.?

 

How much do you think it will cost to build.  then add a bit. subtract the equity and that is what you need to borrow,

 

Living in the house next door while you build seems ideal, but can you afford that.  Have you considered living on site in a static caravan during the build?

 

I paid £10K in architects and engineers fees and thought that was a lot of "money for nothing"

 

Don't forget there is no obligation to start straight away.  Re group, work out your finances, and take time to plan what you are going to do.

[ToughButterCup]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Do a basic financial plan.

[...]

 

Work out the area of your intended house. Multiply that area by £1500. Add a margin of a few percent.

Work to that number.  That number  can be, and regularly is bettered.

 

There's a financial planning spreadsheet for you to use somewhere on BH. In haste.... I'll have a look for you at lunchtime. Or you could try  site search yourself.

 

Ian

[Big Neil]

37 minutes ago, newhome said:

There is no such thing as a stupid question here

 

True this - just look at my posts. Most of them you'd probably think are stupid, but the reactions i've had to whatever i've asked, have usually pointed me in the right direction

 

39 minutes ago, newhome said:

Between its members we do empathy, practical advice, technical advice, little kicks up the proverbial when needed et al. You may feel fearful and helpless at times but there will always be someone on here to point you in the right direction

 

I'd echo this also. Plus you can add in an encyclopedic knowledge of the best curry houses and Kebab shops in the Colchester and Salford areas, should that ever be of use. I often come here just to scan various topics for inspiration and humour.

[Oz07]

Preventing a developer muscling in only to build a house on said plot!

As said above take a breath and see what your options are on the financial side

[lizzie]

Welcome to the rollercoaster world of self build.  It can be beyond stressful, it can be hugely uplifting and euphoric and everywhere in between...sometimes all on the same day.

 

This forum has saved my sanity and my pocket on more than one occasion.  Huge generosity of spirit for sharing and great camaraderie.  You will not be alone on your journey as you have all of us here with you.

 

 

[epsilonGreedy]

Sometimes the best decision is "no decision for now" particularly when mentally exhausted. Why pay an architect silly money to "replace the old ruin with a fairly restrained 3 bed" house.

 

Here is my advice:

 

Get some estate agents in to value the ruin as an immediate resale option.

Go on holiday.

 

Then

 

Consider selling now that you are in the driving seat and can attach covenants.

 

Or add value to what you have for modest extra expenditure by:

 

Obtaining outline permission for a house designed by a timber frame company.

Get quotes from local builders for carting away the ruin.

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, EverHopefull said:

Probably stupidly we had had a meeting with a local architect and to pile more negatives into the equation they are quoting £48k (~11%) for proposed services to replace the old ruin with a fairly restrained 3 bed.

 

Hang on... something doesn't add up there..!

 

How are you calculating your budget...? If £48k for fees is 11%, your total build cost is £435k..?? A modest 3 bed would be circa 165m2 so... that's roughly £2,650 per square metre.... That is a big budget number !! How have you got to that..?

 

I'd start by looking at what you want, then what it may cost, and come up with a number as I think your architect is playing a very big number to scare you..!!

 

With some effort - and a reasonable design - you should be able to deliver at £1,500-1,700 sqm, giving you a build cost of somewhere between £250-280k unless this is a very complex site in the centre of a city..???

[nod]

I was one of those that had no financial worries In that we had saving to cover the whole build

But there is still pressure

 

one bit of advice I would give is don’t exspect anyone to care about your build as much as you do

The trades will go home at the end of each day and forget about it 

You won’t 

You hear plenty of doom and gloom 

Often not as bad as things sound 

But more stressful than some of the tv builds 

 

If you can catch some of the back episodes of building the dream 

They will give you a good grounding 

Far more realistic than Grand Designs 

 

[Big Neil]

and absolutely ignore 99% of what goes on in 'The House that 100K Built'. They're never on budget, they never plan fully and they nearly always ignore the architects advice

[Oz07]

Does anyone remember the house that John built or was it rebuilt. Years ago on discovery

[ProDave]

13 minutes ago, Big Neil said:

and absolutely ignore 99% of what goes on in 'The House that 100K Built'. They're never on budget, they never plan fully and they nearly always ignore the architects advice

And I don't think any of them actually built a finished house for £100K

[joe90]

There are good builders out there, I know I had one, very good attention to detail and with me as project manager very good at discussing my requirements. I designed the house but got an architect to just put it on CAD and make the building regs application for me. I had no financial pressure as I sold a big house to pay fir the build and it was within budget!

[Big Neil]

14 minutes ago, ProDave said:

And I don't think any of them actually built a finished house for £100K

 There was one guy in Norfolk or Suffolk possibly who did the small timber framed place who came in around the 80k mark, but even then had some bits to do. Having spoken to the timber frame guys he used myself, It seems the frame was discounted by about two thirds as a bit of a deal to mention the company directly on the programme, so throw about another £25k on that and even he was over.

 

[nod]

I blame Kirsty 

 

Her and Phil would show a couple round a house 

Tap on a wall Builser for a day £100 Carpenter £100 Plumber Plasterer £500 job done 

[newhome]

Saw a post on the local FB site yesterday and apparently the going rate locally for an electrician is £45 per hour plus vat. And that’s in a small Scottish town some 30 miles outside Edinburgh. Rates definitely seem to be shooting up, mainly I think due to supply and demand. There just aren’t enough trades about to cope with demand. 

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, newhome said:

Saw a post on the local FB site yesterday and apparently the going rate locally for an electrician is £45 per hour plus vat. And that’s in a small Scottish town some 30 miles outside Edinburgh. Rates definitely seem to be shooting up, mainly I think due to supply and demand. There just aren’t enough trades about to cope with demand. 

 

 

I paid our chap £160/day, no VAT, in 2014, which is less than half that hourly rate, and we're down South, where rates tend to be more expensive.