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650 to 3000sq ft in the Greenbelt. Pat on the back for me.


Big Jimbo

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Good morning. I'm Jim from Bovingdon, in Hertfordshire. My wife and i purchased a 1942 built bungalow on a half acre plot about 20 months ago. Although it is in the Green belt, i didn't really give it a great deal of thought. I did check that the was no artical 4. Once i started looking into it i realised that i might have a bit of an issue re Green belt. I spoke to the planning dept at Dacorum council and decided to adopt the following route.

Rear 8 mt deep full width extension under the neighbourhood consultation scheme. No probs.

Obtained an LDC for extensions to either side of the property , gable ends to the roof, and a dormer.

Using this i then drew up the ugliest property i could sticking within what i could do re the above. I then drew up a modernish, flat roof, slate hung house that used the existing bungalow of about 650 sq ft, and extended it to about 2850 sq ft. I sent this in for permission, together with the ugly one, and waited to see how i got on. The delegated planning officer had to be just about the most uncommunicative, no personality, person i had ever spoken to. I think i got 4 supports, and one objection from the nearest neighbour. The planning officer never contacted me once, so after about Six weeks i started trying to ring him. I must have left him atleast 20 telephone messages, but he never returned any of them. Once the 8 weeks had passed i wrote to the head of planning, and said i thought that the service, for which i was paying was a joke.  Finally, my delegated officer contacted me. He said he could'nt pass my modern design, "No way" and so i asked him what might get passed.

He would'nt really commit to anything, so i did about 5 different designs and emailed them to him. I rang him a week later and said i needed him to look at them, and give me some feedback. I basically got, Number 1, No,    2No     3No      4no      5Looks okish. I seized on that and said to him. Right my current proposal is now about 3 weeks overdue, If i withdraw it, and re-apply with design 5, will you look after that application for me, and get it sorted.  Basically, this, after a couple of extensions of time, and some gentle nudging from me got passed. So i now have Planning to extend a 650ish sq ft bungalow in the Greenbelt into about 3000sq ft. Although no the best design in the world. However as far as i'm concerned RESULT.

 

This got me thinking, so i got my pencil out again. I then designed 2 four bedroom detached houses side by side, but made sure that i kept them within the footprint of the large extended house, and that the front view of the Two houses (bulk) fitted inside the front view of the front view of the extended house for which i obtained permission. I emailed this off to the planning officer, and asked what he thought. "Would it not be better for me to provide Two houses for future generations, than One large house. " No response was all i got from him.

 

Anyway, I thought about it for a while, and to be honest. I don't need a 3000sq ft house, and i do fundamentally believe that it would be much better to provide Two houses for Two family's.

So i sent in my application for Two houses. ...... Refused, however they took no account of what they had already given planning permission for, and compared the new Two houses to the existing Bungalow, saying that they didn't consider that the planning permission that was obtained, would be implemented.

 

So as of now, i'm looking for an architect, and a professional planning statement writer. I will have the architect re-visit, and re-fine my designs. Have a professional planning statement written, and re-submit using my free go, making it clear that i will go straight to appeal after 8 weeks.

 

Sorry to ramble, but so much to tell, and what a great site this is.

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Well done Russell. I think i could ProDave, but they did make a veiled comment about the designs, so it may be best to have a pro re-visit them. I don't think i made enough of the special circumstances, so again i think it would be worth having a pro look at the planning statement. So far i have done everything myself, so might be best to spend a few bob and get a pro application in, that would be strong enough to go to appeal if ness

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My planning cost me £14600 all in, about £4500 to the planning consultants 

in the grand scheme of life it was money well spent

we built a model of the original, then added extensions that we could get under permitted development 

then built another model of the new proposed house

we then asked for a site meeting 

the planning guy didn’t really have a lot to say and just said you had better stick an application in and we got it. 

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You should look at the council's policy on sustainable locations. By that they mean will people be able to live there without a car!

 I imagine you have no real access to services if you are in the green belt (e.g. shops, buses etc) a lot of policies specifically say no "additional dwellings" in non sustainable locations.

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@Big Jimbo, is your currently approved PP to extend the existing house or to demolish and build new? I know that you're not thinking of following through on that plan but will you build or extend the single house if that is all you can eventually get PP for? Good idea to invest a bit of cash on a consultant however. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

You should look at the council's policy on sustainable locations. By that they mean will people be able to live there without a car!

 I imagine you have no real access to services if you are in the green belt (e.g. shops, buses etc) a lot of policies specifically say no "additional dwellings" in non sustainable locations.

Get that, however, i can fit both of the new houses inside the one extended house. 8mins walk to bus stop. 16mins walk to high st, and nearer to the village green, tennis club, football club, than most of the houses within the village boundary. Two houses at aprox 1500sq ft each have to be better than one large house.

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46 minutes ago, newhome said:

@Big Jimbo, is your currently approved PP to extend the existing house or to demolish and build new? I know that you're not thinking of following through on that plan but will you build or extend the single house if that is all you can eventually get PP for? Good idea to invest a bit of cash on a consultant however. 

 

 

To extend the existing bungalow........... worst case, i will go back for permission  to knock and build, and end up with exactly the house i have permission to extend to. I don't see how they could refuse that.

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43 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

To extend the existing bungalow........... worst case, i will go back for permission  to knock and build, and end up with exactly the house i have permission to extend to. I don't see how they could refuse that.

 

One possibility could be if local or national policy changed in a way which affects your plot negatively.

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1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

To extend the existing bungalow........... worst case, i will go back for permission  to knock and build, and end up with exactly the house i have permission to extend to. I don't see how they could refuse that.

 

Exactly what I did. Got the permissions for the extensions, alterations and roof terrace. Then did a final application to demolish and rebuild to same design as previous application.

No hiccups 

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1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

yep. Over devel in the Greenbelt. Compared my two houses against the existing Bungalow, and not the 3000sq ft that they passed.

You need to look at the exact reason and compare it to their policy and then decide to appeal or not. The policy might say that there should never be any additional dwellings built in the green belt, in a hich case you will lose your appeal as the council have followed their policy correctly.

 

As an alternative you could redesign your 3000sq ft single dwelling in such a way that it could be converted to 2 semis but there's no guarantee of planning permission for that

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7 hours ago, bassanclan said:

You need to look at the exact reason and compare it to their policy and then decide to appeal or not. The policy might say that there should never be any additional dwellings built in the green belt, in a hich case you will lose your appeal as the council have followed their policy correctly.

 

As an alternative you could redesign your 3000sq ft single dwelling in such a way that it could be converted to 2 semis but there's no guarantee of planning permission for that

Yes. I can't find anything in the council's policies that says there should be no more dwellings in the greenbelt. They based the decision on overdevelopement, as they viewed the proposal for Two against the existing bungalow of about 650sq ft, and not the extended house that they have recently passed of 3000sq ft. I expect they are entitled to do that, but it is madness. There was a bungalow near me, (same council) that got permission for extending into a large two storey. They then got an LDC for a six car garage, workshop, etc, and went back in for another house instead. Got refused, but passed on appeal. To be fair, I wrote my own planning statement, and don't think i made enough of what i could do re 3000sq ft, and the council made a veiled comment about the designs of the Two houses. I'm going to get an architect to check over the designs, and tweek them, and get a professional to write the planning statement. My intention is to then re-submit using my free go, and then if refused again, will consider going straight to appeal.

The road, is ruralish, and very scruffy, with a fir bit of mixed use. Car Repairs, Haulage Yard, Scrap Yard. It's not full of fantastic large detatched houses. It's a mix of large detached, smaller detached, scruffy old bungalows. A row of terraced houses, and looks a bit of a mess. I do understand the council taking the stance they have, and all the neighbour objections. However i can provide Two nice new houses, for Two families, instead of One large house, and having had to help (A lot) to get my Three daughters £££££ on to the property ladder, I do feel it is fundamentaly better to provide Two houses for future generations. Especially in the South East where housing prices are madness. I might not win at the end of the day, but i do think it's worth the fight. We should be making the best use of any previously developed land we have available. I'm not asking to carve up a piece of virgin Green belt. I could cover half of my half acre in scruffy outbuildings etc, or a large 3000sq ft. Would it not be better to put Two reasonable sized houses on the previously developed land instead ?????

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On 02/02/2019 at 10:48, Big Jimbo said:

So as of now, i'm looking for an architect, and a professional planning statement writer. I will have the architect re-visit, and re-fine my designs. Have a professional planning statement written, and re-submit using my free go, making it clear that i will go straight to appeal after 8 weeks.

 

Sorry to ramble, but so much to tell, and what a great site this is.

 

Might be able to help with some recommendations.

 

I don’t live a million miles from you (we’re Chiltern District council). We’ve just successfully got through pre-planning and are now fine tuning the design before going to full planning application. Our architect is based in Berkhamsted which a I am sure you know is Dacorum and have quite a lot of experience of building on Green Belt sites. Our planning consultant used to run Chiltern’s Planning Dept so knows the ropes very well and has been very helpful....my feeling with him is that if he tells you it’s possible you’ll get it through. 

 

We’re demolishing a de-listed house and building a new replacement as well as going for two additional houses on the plot so it’s quite complicated...the boundary for AONB and Green Belt goes right through the middle of our garden. 

 

Drop me a PM if you’d like details, 

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